New Scaratings

I realize that the number of people here who may be interested in this may be vanishingly small, but as there is no central repository for these data of which I know, I'm posting this here for future reference.

This is nothing more than the pairings of past major player-run Showdown trophy games (McCarthy and Sandbag Cups) from the quarterfinals to the finals, 1999 to 2015. If anyone has corrections or easy access to these results from 1998 for the McCarthy, please feel free to post those here as well. Any unique rules that differed from traditional seedings in any given year are noted parenthetically.

QUARTERFINALS

1999 McCarthy Cup
17 ES Marios-Henderson, NV vs. 8 Opium NT-Winnipeg
5 NickelodeInn vs. 4 Sullivan’s
3 Catbird’s vs. 6 Shucker’s-Houston
10 Johnny’s vs. 2 Bennigan’s-Wichita
(Teams ranked from 1-64 during a preliminary round, then 1 vs. 64, 2 vs. 63, etc.)

2000 McCarthy
16 Grand Slam vs. 8 Catbirds
5 Bennigan's-Wichita vs. 4 NickelodeInn
3 Stadium Cafe vs. 6 Shucker's
10 The Garage-Richmond, BC vs. 18 Boss Q's-Winnipeg
(Teams ranked from 1-64 during a preliminary round, then 1 vs. 64, 2 vs. 63, etc.)

2001 McCarthy
1 NickleodeInn vs. 8 Grand Slam
2 Teaser's vs. 7 Damon's-Kalamazoo
3 Stooges, Scottsdale vs. 6 Boogie's
4 Catbirds vs. 5 Knucklehead's
(re-seeding every round)

2002/2003 McCarthy
(Signups in late 2002, first game January 7, 2003)
8 Traildust, Westminster, CO. vs. #16 Damon's-Indianapolis
5 Knucklehead's vs. 4 Te Roma's-Centerline, MI
14 Grand Slam vs. 11 Houndstooth, Tuscaloosa, AL
7 Heroes vs. #2 Stadium Cafe

2004 McCarthy
1 Grand Slam vs. 9 Knuckleheads
4 A&M Roadhouse vs. 5 Stadium
7 Heroes vs. 15 Bananaz
14 TGIF-Albuquerque vs. 22 Woodys

2005 McCarthy
1 Grand Slam vs. 8 Stadium
4 Sams vs. 12 Woodys
2 A&M Roadhouse vs. 23 Skybox
3 Heroes vs. 22 Sidepocket

2006 McCarthy
1 A&M(B4) vs. 9 Teasers
4 Stadium vs. 5 Damons Levittown
2 Sams vs. 10 Laclede St.
3 Grand Slam vs. 11 Pranksters

2007 McCarthy
1 B4 vs. 9 Holiday Inn Vancouver
12 Pacific Beach vs. 36 Melrose Cafe
7 Teasers vs. 18 SRO OT
3 Sams vs. 6 Grand Slam

2007 Sandbag
1 Grand Slam vs. 9 League Park
5 Sullivan's Laurel vs. 13 BWW Frankfort
3 Mezzanine vs. 6 Teasers
10 Mad River vs. 2 Fellowship, Damon's-Stow

2008 McCarthy
1 Grand Slam vs. 8 Houlihan's
13 Paddy McGuido's vs. 5 Mezzanine
2 Fellowship, Damon's-Stow vs. 7 SRO OT
3 Mad River vs. 11 Four Corners

2008 Sandbag
1 Mad River v. 8 Macadams
2 Danny K's v. 7 Sullivan's Laurel
3 Mezzanine v. 6 Fellowship, Damon's-Stow
4 Grand Slam v. 5 Stained Glass Pub

2009 McCarthy
1 Fellowship, Damon’s-Stow vs. 8 Sullivan’s
5 Fletcher’s vs. 4 Stadium
3 Grand Slam vs. 11 SRO OT
10 Johnny’s vs. 15 Boston Pizza

2009 Sandbag
1 Grand Slam vs. 9 Danny K’s
13 Wild Wing Café vs. 5 Blue Goose
15 Adam’s Mill vs. 10 Fletcher’s
3 Sullivan’s vs. 11 Fellowship, Damon’s-Stow/Damon’s Twinsburg

2010 McCarthy
(combined Showdown and Brainbuster scores for tournament, re-seeding each round, then 1 vs. 5, 2 vs. 6, etc.)
1 Fellowship, Damon’s-Twinsburg vs. 5 Fletcher’s Pub
2 Grand Slam vs. 6 Teaser’s
3 Mad River vs. 7 BWW-Tallahassee
4 BWW-Bowling Green vs. 8 Houlihan’s-Brick

2010 Sandbag
(re-seeding done each round, then 1 vs. 5, 2 vs. 6, etc.)
1 Fellowship, Damon's-Twinsburg vs. 5 Houlihan’s-Westbury
2 Blue Goose vs. 6 BWW-Tallahassee
3 Concert Pub vs. 7 Tailgate Sports Cafe
4 Coaches Sports Grill vs. 8 Fletcher’s Pub

2011 McCarthy
8 Danny K's vs. 16 Concert Pub
5 Coaches vs. 13 Blue Goose
6 Fellowship, Damon’s Twinsburg vs. 14 Fletcher's
2 Henry Hudson's vs. 7 BWW Talahassee

2011 Sandbag
1 Fellowship, Stringz & WIngz vs. 9 Mad River
12 Houlihan's Brick vs. 4 New Edinburgh Pub
3 End Zone vs. 6 Coaches
7 Concert Pub vs. 2 Grand Slam

2012 McCarthy
1 Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz vs. 8 SRO OT
2 Dagwoods vs. 7 Coaches
3 Varsity Bar and Grill vs. 6 Houlihans
4 Mad River vs. 5 Concert Pub

2012 Sandbag
(20 teams, blind draw, first round bye for teams 1-12)
13 Blue Goose vs. 8 Houlihan's Westbury
17 West Park Station v. 12 Tailgate Sports Cafe
19 SRO OT v. 10 BWW-Crystal City(former Grand Slam)
15 Mad River v. 6 Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz

2013 McCarthy
(Cumulative-point prelims, six teams advancing, top two seeds with a bye)
1. Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz 119,855
2. Concert Pub 118,799
3. Diamond Lil's 116,583
4. Mad River 115,895
5. BWW-Crystal City 109,910
6. Scooter's 109,340

4 Mad River vs. 5 BWW-Crystal City(former Grand Slam)
3 Diamond Lil's vs. 6 Scooter's

2013 Sandbag
1 Brewstir's vs. 9 New Edinburgh Pub
5 Houlihan's-Brick vs. 4 Houlihan's-Westbury
6 Concert Pub vs. 14 Meriden AOH
7 Stadium Café vs. 2 Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz

2014 McCarthy
1 Fellowship, BWW-Kent vs. 9 Gibby’s Sports Bar
12 Scooter’s vs. 4 Mad River
11 Teaser's vs. 3 BWW-Arlington(former Grand Slam)
7 Brewstir's vs. 15 Old Barn

2014 Sandbag
1 Fellowship, BWW-Kent vs. 9 Stadium Cafe
12 New Edinburgh Pub vs. 4 Brewstirs
14 Dagwood's vs. 11 Mad River
10 BWW-Tallahassee vs. 2 Houlihan's-Westbury

2015 McCarthy
1 BWW-Arlington, VA vs. 9 Concert Pub, Houston, TX
4 Fellowship, BWW-Kent vs. 5 Blue Goose, Cincinnati, OH
14 Danny K's, Orange, CA vs. 11 BWW-Albuquerque, NM
2 Houlihan's--Westbury, NY vs. 7 Big Guys, Winnipeg, MB

2015 Sandbag
1 The Fellowship (BWW-Kent, OH) vs. 9 Fletcher's/Brewster's, Kalamazoo, MI
4 Mad River, New York, NY vs. 5 BWW-Crystal City, Arlington, VA
11 Concert Pub, Houston, TX vs. 14 New Edinburgh Pub, Ottawa, ON
7 Four Corners, Chapel Hill, NC vs. 15 Tilted Kilt, Scottsdale, AZ

2016 McCarthy
16 Big Guys, Winnipeg MB vs. 9 Houlihan's-Westbury NY
5 Mad River, New York NY vs. 4 BWW-Arlington VA
6 Tilted Kilt-Scottsdale AZ vs. 3 New Edinburgh Pub/Moose McGuires, Ottawa ON
7 Danny K's, Orange CA vs. 2 Teaser's, Chicago IL

2016 Sandbag
1 The Fellowship, BWW-Kent OH vs. 9 Houlihan's-Westbury NY
4 Danny K's, Orange CA vs. 12 BWW-Bloomingdale IL
3 BWW-Kalamazoo MI vs. 11 Tilted Kilt, Scottsdale AZ
2 BWW-Gibson, Albuquerque NM vs. 7 Mad River, New York NY

2017 McCarthy
1 The Fellowship (BWW-Kent, OH) vs. 9 Moose McGuire's (Ottawa, ON)
4 Houlihan's-Westbury, NY vs. 12 Tilted Kilt-Scottsdale, AZ
3 BWW-Arlington, VA vs. 11 Kzoo Krew (BWW-Kalamazoo, MI)
2 Danny K's (Orange, CA) vs. 10 Teaser's (Chicago, IL)

2017 Sandbag
1 The Fellowship (BWW-Kent, OH) vs. 9 K-zoo Krew (BWW-Kalamazoo, MI)
5 Danny K's (Orange, CA) vs. 13 Teasers (Chicago, IL)
6 The Ragged Rascals (BWW-Albuquerque, NM) vs. 3 Tailgate Sports Cafe (Minneapolis, MN)
7 Tilted Kilt (Scottsdale, AZ) vs. 15 Blue Goose (Cincinnati, OH)

2018 McCarthy
1 BWW-Crystal City, Arlington VA vs. 9 Tilted Kilt, Scottsdale AZ
4 Houlihan's-Westbury NY vs. 5 Danny K's, Orange CA
3 The Old Barn, Portland OR vs. 6 The Ragged Rascals, BWW-Albuquerque NM
2 The Fellowship, BWW-Kent OH vs. 7 Tailgate Sports Cafe, Minneapolis MN

2018 Sandbag
1 The Fellowship (BWW-Kent, OH) vs. 9 Danny K’s (Orange, CA)
4 Teaser’s (Chicago, IL) vs. 12 K-zoo Krew (BWW-Kalamazoo)
3 The Ragged Rascals (BWW-Albuquerque, NM) vs. Buster’s Bar (Ottawa, ON)
7 Mad River (New York, NY) vs. The Old Barn (Portland, OR)

2019 McCarthy
1. The Fellowship (Red Fox Grille, Cuyahoga Falls, OH) vs. 11. Teasers (Chicago, IL)
2. BWW-Crystal City (Arlington, VA) vs. 10. Mad River (New York, NY)
3. Danny K's (Orange, CA) vs. 8. Pocket's Pool and Pub (Tallahassee, FL)
4. Tipsy Coyote (Scottsdale, AZ) vs. 5. Houlihan's (Westbury, NY)

2019 Sandbag
1. The Fellowship (Red Fox Grille, Cuy. Falls, OH) vs. 8. Tipsy Coyote (Scottsdale, AZ)

4. Mad River (New York, NY) vs. 12. Scooters (Las Vegas, NV)

6. The Ragged Rascals (Turquoise Trail, Albuquerque, NM)
 vs. 3. BWW- Crystal City (Arlington, VA)

7. Whisper's (Ottawa, ON) vs. 2. Big Guys (Winnipeg, MB)



SEMIFINALS

1999 McCarthy
10 Johnny’s vs. 6 Shucker’s
17 ES Marios-Henderson, NV vs. 5 NickelodeInn/4 Sullivan’s
(three-way match because of Sullivan’s connection problems in the previous week)

2000 McCarthy
16 Grand Slam vs. 4 NickelodInn
3 Stadium vs. 18 Boss Q’s-Winnipeg

2001 McCarthy
1 Grand Slam vs. 4 Damon's-Kalamazoo
2 Knucklehead's vs. 3 Stooges, Scottsdale

2002/2003 McCarthy
5 Knucklehead's vs. 8 Traildust
14 Grand Slam vs. 7 Heroes

2004 McCarthy
1 Grand Slam vs. 5 Stadium Cafe
15 Bananaz vs. 14 TGIF-Albuquerque

2005 McCarthy
8 Stadium Cafe vs. 4 Sam's Irish Pub
2 A&M Roadhouse v. 22 Side Pocket

2006 McCarthy
1 A&M Roadhouse vs. 4 Stadium Café
2 Sams Pub vs. 3 Grand Slam

2007 McCarthy
1 B4 vs. 36 Melrose Cafe
18 SRO OT vs. 6 Grand Slam

2007 Sandbag
1 Grand Slam vs. 5 Sullivan's Laurel
3 Mezzanine vs. 2 Fellowship, Damon's-Stow

2008 McCarthy
1 Grand Slam vs. 5 Mezzanine
2 Fellowship, Damon's-Stow vs. 3 Mad River

2008 Sandbag
1 Mad River vs. 4 Grand Slam
3 Mezzanine vs. 7 Sullivan's

2009 McCarthy
1 Fellowship, Damons-Stow vs. 5 Fletchers
11 SRO OT vs. 10 Johnny’s

2009 Sandbag
9 Danny K’s vs. 5 Blue Goose
10 Fletcher’s vs. 3 Sullivan’s

2010 McCarthy
(combined Showdown and Brainbuster scores, re-seeding each round)
1 Grand Slam vs. 3 Mad River
2 Fellowship, Damon’s-Twinsburg vs. 4 BWW-Bowling Green

2010 Sandbag
(Re-seeding each round, then 1 vs. 3, 2 vs. 4)
1 Fellowship, Damon's-Twinsburg vs. 3 Tailgate Sports Cafe
2 Blue Goose vs. 4 Fletcher’s Pub

2011 McCarthy
8 Danny K's vs. 5 Coaches
14 Fletcher's vs. 7 BWW Tallahassee

2011 Sandbag
1 Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz vs.12 Houlihan’s-Brick
3 End Zone vs. 7 Concert Pub

2012 McCarthy
1 Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz vs 5 Concert Pub
7 Coaches vs 3 Varsity Bar and Grill

2012 Sandbag
(blind draw)
8 Houlihan's Westbury v. 12 Tailgate Sports Cafe
10 BWW-Crystal City(former Grand Slam) v. 6 Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz

2013 McCarthy
1 Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz vs. 5 BWW-Crystal City(former Grand Slam)
2 Concert Pub vs. 6 Scooter's Pub

2013 Sandbag
1 Brewstir's/Diamond Lil's vs. 5 Houlihan's Brick
2 Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz vs. 6 Concert Pub

2014 McCarthy
1 Fellowship, BWW-Kent vs. 4 Mad River
3 BWW-Arlington(former Grand Slam) vs. 7 Brewstir's

2014 Sandbag
1 Fellowship, BWW-Kent vs. 12 New Edinburgh Pub
10 BWW-Tallahassee vs. 11 Mad River

2015 McCarthy
9 Concert Pub, Houston, TX vs. 4 Fellowship, BWW-Kent
14 Danny K's, Orange, CA vs. 2 Houlihan's--Westbury, NY

2015 Sandbag
1 The Fellowship (BWW-Kent, OH) vs. 5 BWW-Crystal City, Arlington, VA
14 New Edinburgh Pub, Ottawa, ON vs. 15 Tilted Kilt, Scottsdale, AZ

2016 McCarthy
16 Big Guys, Winnipeg MB vs. 4 BWW-Arlington VA
6 Tilted Kilt-Scottsdale AZ vs. 7 Danny K's, Orange CA

2016 Sandbag
1 The Fellowship, BWW-Kent OH vs. 4 Danny K's, Orange CA
11 Tilted Kilt, Scottsdale AZ vs. 2 BWW-Gibson, Albuquerque NM

2017 McCarthy
1 The Fellowship (BWW-Kent, OH) vs. 12 Tilted Kilt-Scottsdale, AZ
10 Teaser's (Chicago, IL) vs. 11 Kzoo Krew (BWW-Kalamazoo, MI)

2017 Sandbag
1 The Fellowship (BWW-Kent, OH) vs. 5 Danny K's (Orange, CA)
3 Tailgate Sports Cafe (Minneapolis, MN) vs. 7 Tilted Kilt (Scottsdale, AZ)

2018 McCarthy
1 BWW-Crystal City, Arlington VA vs. 4 Houlihan's-Westbury NY
2 The Fellowship, BWW-Kent OH vs. 6 The Ragged Rascals, Albuquerque NM

2018 Sandbag
4 Teaser’s, Chicago IL vs. 9 Danny K’s, Orange, CA
7 Mad River, New York, NY vs. 11 Buster’s Bar, Ottawa, ON

2019 McCarthy
1. The Fellowship (Red Fox Grille, Cuyahoga Falls, OH) vs. 4. Tipsy Coyote (Scottsdale, AZ)
2. BWW-Crystal City (Arlington, VA) vs. 3. Danny K's (Orange, CA)

2019 Sandbag
1. The Fellowship (Red Fox, Cuy. Falls, OH) vs. 4. Mad River (New York, NY)
7. Whispers (Ottawa, ON) vs. 6. The Ragged Rascals (Turquoise Trail, Albuquerque, NM)


FINALS
(winners in bold)
1998 McCarthy Cup
Catbird's vs. Maggie Mae's (Sunnyside, NY)

1999 McCarthy
17 ES Mario’s vs. 6 Shucker’s

2000 McCarthy
3 Stadium vs. 16 Grand Slam

2001 McCarthy
1 Grand Slam vs. 3 Stooges, Scottsdale

2002/2003 McCarthy
14 Grand Slam vs. 5 Knucklehead's

2004 McCarthy
1 Grand Slam vs. 15 Bananaz

2005 McCarthy
2 A&M Roadhouse vs. 4 Sam’s Irish Pub

2006 McCarthy
1 A&M(B4) vs. 3 Grand Slam

2007 McCarthy
6 Grand Slam vs 1 B4(former A&M)

2007/8 Sandbag
2 Fellowship, Damon’s-Stow vs. 1 Grand Slam

2008 McCarthy
2 Fellowship, Damon’s-Stow vs. 5 Mezzanine

2008 Sandbag
4 Grand Slam vs. 3 Mezzanine

2009 McCarthy
5 Fletcher’s vs. 11 SRO OT

2009 Sandbag
10 Fletchers vs 9 Danny K’s

2010 McCarthy
(combined Showdown and Brainbuster scores, re-seeding each round)
2 Fellowship, Damon's-Twinsburg vs. 1 Grand Slam

2010 Sandbag
(re-seeding each round)
1 Fellowship, Damon’s-Twinsburg vs. 2. Fletchers

2011 McCarthy
8 Danny K’s vs. 14 Fletcher’s

2011 Sandbag
7 Concert Pub vs. 1 Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz

2012 McCarthy
5 Concert Pub vs. 7 Coaches

2012 Sandbag
(blind draw)
6 Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz vs. 12 Tailgate Sports Cafe

2013 McCarthy
1 Fellowship, Stringz & Wingz vs. 6 Scooters

2013 Sandbag
2 Fellowship, Stringz & WIngz vs. 1 Diamond Lil’s/Brewstir’s

2014 McCarthy
3 BWW-Arlington (former Grand Slam) vs. 1 Fellowship, BWW-Kent

2014 Sandbag
1 Fellowship, BWW-Kent vs. 11 Mad River

2015 McCarthy
14 Danny K's vs. 9 Concert Pub

2015 Sandbag
1 Fellowship, BWW-Kent vs. 15 Tilted Kilt-Scottsdale

2016 McCarthy
7 Danny K's, Orange CA vs. 4 BWW-Arlington VA

2016 Sandbag
4 Danny K's vs, 2 BWW-Albuquerque

2017 McCarthy
1 The Fellowship (BWW-Kent, OH) vs. 10 Teaser's (Chicago, IL)

2017 Sandbag
1 The Fellowship (BWW-Kent, OH) vs. 7 Tilted Kilt (Scottsdale, AZ)

2018 McCarthy
1 BWW-Arlington VA vs. 2 The Fellowship (BWW-Kent, OH)

2018 Sandbag
7 Mad River, New York, NY vs. 4 Teaser's, Chicago, IL

2019 McCarthy
2. BWW-Crystal City (Arlington, VA) vs. 1. The Fellowship (Red Fox Grille, Cuyahoga Falls, OH)

2019 Sandbag
1. The Fellowship (Red Fox, Cuy. Falls, OH) vs. 7. Whispers



Apparently, being the #1 seed going into the quarterfinals confers little advantage in winning the whole thing (at least from 2007 on), and in fact gives you virtually the same chance of winning as a random pick of the eight quarterfinal teams would. Crud.

_________________
Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."

Reading through your archives, ANON, is a lesson in frustration for our heroic little Tampa team. We've entered every one of these events and usually turn up as fodder for the major teams. We're surprised and tickled that we squeeked by the mighty BWW Arlington team last week to sneak into the quarterfinals. I see we've only been this far twice in the past and have never moved into the semis. Mad River stands in our way now but we'll give it our best effort. Do you believe in miracles?

Here's a fine encapsulation of a phantom advantage. Rally the troops, S O B! You need only beat four teams: the other 11 shall disappear without your intervention.

First of all, I think anybody still in the tournament only has to beat three teams to win. BWW Kent will take care of all the teams in the upper bracket. Second, SOB, don't try to take the underdog status away from us. Mad River plays under unfavorable conditions that I don't think any other team faces. Not only do we have just six serious players (as opposed to BWW-Kent's thirty or more, all playing separate boxes), but the management of Mad River thought that Tuesdays were a great time to stage a bar trivia game from 8 to 10. Our competitive group plays that as well as Showdown, as visitors have often noted, and since the moderator of the bar trivia, a former Showdown player, wants to encourage as many players as possible, he has a definite bias against us, resulting in frequent arguments (he penalizes us for asking clarifying questions.) Last week, for example, when we answered "there are no molecules in a vacuum" to his question, "Why doesn't sound travel in a vacuum," he awarded us only half a point because HIS answer was "There is no matter in a vacuum." I've begged my teammates to ignore the bar trivia game, but since the bar gives out cash prizes, they won't do it.
And now I learn that one of our key players (they're all key players) won't make it this Tuesday. It should be a walkover for SOB's team, Dagwood's.
xt

Be gentle with us.

_________________
liljol, still residing in a humble lil abode in Buzztime's Backyard, San Diego County, in The Horribly Site-Poor Golden State, California...

<--805 NTN Buzztime sites visited as of 11/13/2018...

F CUBS!!!!! FBOSOX!!!!!

FPDRES!!!!! FCHGRS!!!!!

Of course that's what we're hoping for, but as these data show, it is far from a given. In just the last few years, look at Concert Pub in 2012, or Fletcher's in 2011 (or heck, look at what Fletcher's almost did against us this week).



I'm not sure the last time we had thirty or more, but it hasn't been in this tournament (yet). Still, I appreciate that the 25 players we had this week would be an embarrassment of riches for the vast majority of teams.

Also, in the interests of full disclosure, nowadays we usually have two or three extra boxes going. One is for VICTOR in case he actually shows up (he rarely does anymore, but if he does it is after the countdown round). One is in case someone else comes late or a box craps out during the game and there or no working boxes to switch to quickly (for those scoring at home, this box's handle is INCASE, and it probably gets redistributed to someone every four or five weeks or so). Sometimes BOTAN also fires up BHUTAN as well. Thus, we cannot claim to be strictly single-boxers.



It sounds like you have one of the most challenging home-bar situations of any team out there, and my hat is off to you for being able to be not only one of the top teams in the continent in Showdown, but also managing to do that while playing bar trivia SIMULTANEOUSLY. I am sure we would not be able (or even inclined) to try to pull that off, and would probably move somewhere else if that happened. Naturally, you do not have the kind of opportunity to do that as we do here. (Have you looked into Krush Sports Bar on W. 32nd? Would you like me to call the manager at Mad River to compliment him on his fine, nationally-ranked Showdown trivia team? Let me know.)

Even more impressive, a look at these data reveals that Mad River is tied with BWW-Arlington/Grand Slam for second place in most appearances in the quarterfinals since the 2007 Sandbag tournament (10 of 15). That's pretty good company.

Also, I can't possibly improve on LILJOL's assessment:

_________________
Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."

Here's how you can tell our importance to Buzztime: Go to their web page and click on Site Finder. Type in New York, NY and you get a list of six bars. Four are in New Jersey, one is in Brooklyn, and one (the sports bar you mentioned) is in Manhattan. They don't even list the BWW in Times Square or the BWW in Queens, where I play on Wednesdays. To find Mad River at all, you have to call up a map and then start hitting one after another of the four "pins" that mark locations in Manhattan. If you look at the Krush Sports Bar site, you find that the overwhelming number of games played has been Texas Hold-em. Not once has anybody played Showdown. I would have a hard time getting our team to move down there, given the added distance some of them would have to come. There's another bar a few blocks east of Mad River that might welcome us, but it has tablets and some of us aren't fond of those. Personally, I would like to move the entire group to the BWW in Queens, where they have limitless TVs, but it's too far for the other players, including my wife DAR.

Eventually, Mad River will drop Buzztime and we'll have to move on. There is no doubt that the bar trivia game draws in customers better than Buzztime alone ever did. Buzztime actually did try to introduce a "live" trivia game of its own on the first Monday of the month. The bar's same host moderated a game, with questions supplied by Buzztime appearing on one or more screens. The big difference was that he controlled what kinds of questions they were (pop culture, academic, etc.) , and kept the question on the screen until he knew that everyone had answered it. They even gave prizes like tickets to shows and sports events. They've dropped that idea. After a while no one played it but us.

There's no use calling the manager. The day manager has always liked us. MEGUMI often arrives around 4 and happily plays seven boxes (using two TVs with two different games) until our group starts to arrive. He even brings his own 2-liter bottle of Pepsi since the bar doesn't stock that. The day manager keeps the bottle on ice and caters to his needs. We can tell when he's been in because many of the boxes have low charges. He doesn't want to play Showdown with us because he has a good friend who plays at Houlihan's of Westbury, our only local rivals, and doesn't want to show favoritism.

The night manager (starts around 7) loves the live trivia. He even plays it, and the bar host jokes with him. The night manager is good to us as well, but nobody can get around the fact that the bar trivia brings in far more people than Buzztime.

C'est la vie.
XT

Just remember that while you may not have the best bar setup, you didn't get the shit end of the stick every night of the week because of the split.

_________________
Buzztime is a company full of dumbshits.

FWIW, your six players beat our five Tuesday night.

(No, I don't feel the least bit cheated!)

Good luck--we want to be able to say that we must be 2nd best because we lost to the champion.

--Rick Magnus
RickM, Blue Goose

I apologize for my bland assurance in mentioning 'phantom advantage.' Among several such phantoms, I had in mind 'Home Field.' Everyone gets to play at his home site, right? Of course at BWW-Kent, the bleachers are stacked to the ceiling, and stuffed with Showdown fans in dog masks, who hurl milk bones at the hapless player who hits the wrong button. But it really does sound as if XTRAIN is attempting to compete with a Home Field Disadvantage. Physical comfort and tranquil clarity are, for me at least, indispensable. It would be great if you got an occasional assist from one of the live players, XTRAIN, but I'm afraid such hopes are again naive.

Ah, memories. That was a helluva good run we made that year, but we were simply outclassed by B4. I had forgotten we were so far down the seed rankings

I've played Buzztime at Mad River at least three times, twice on a Tuesday night with that live trivia. The joint gets packed full, and it is incredibly and ceaselessly loud for nearly three hours, to the point I would press my fingers into my ears for some degree of reprieve

When we played at Melrose, it could get that loud during important Flames games, but the noise was rarely sustained at an intense level (we prayed the Flames would score goals only between rounds), and management would reserve tables for us in their atrium room whenever it wasn't already booked. Mad River's group, though, plays right in the thick of it, every week

_________________
/°v°\ • Every time Linux boots, a penguin gets its wings
I'm a solipsistic conspiracy theorist. I'm sure I must be up to something, and I won't stop until I find out what
Why not downgrade Plutonium to a dwarf element?

Once a group gets to be of such size (or the environment so distracting) that conversation can't be generally shared among all players present, there are any number of possible consequences, and most of them are bad. I recall BLZBUB recently noting that his group had to take some pains to re-establish feng shui when they moved to the Black Angus, and his group is only half the size of ANON's. Not being initiate to the rites of alchemy, I can only regard the success of BWW-Kent as magical.
I've been in groups of two dozen or more only twice. What I encountered was anarchy, chaos, and bedlam. After spending 35 minutes as a button-pusher, I'd grown so lethargic that when faced with difficult choices late in the game, I couldn't respond to the challenge; or cut through the cacophony if I had. At the end of the second such session, the guy sitting opposite me (whose name I never caught), announced, "I would have scored better playing alone."
I'd like to pose BWW-Kent and Mad River as underdogs, but I spend enough time streaking through these pages dressed only in a dunce cap and bulls-eye. If either of these teams wins, they should be presented with a trophy which emits white noise.

Actually, during non-tournament times (i.e., most of the time) our usual attendance is about the same as BLZBUB's group, or maybe a few more: 15-20. Occasionally we'll dip down to 11 or 12 or as high as 21-22, but those are the exceptions.



You are not too far off the mark. I have often referred to The Fellowship as a "benevolent chaocracy." You never know who is going to show up from week to week or which way they will go on questions we don't know for sure. The Category Round is always an adventure, because except for certain categories on which we feel pretty solid, you never know which way the group is going to vote (it is almost never unanimous). Furthermore, we have one or two wiseacres who--if the vote is 11-11, let's say--will ping-pong the vote between 12-10 and 11-11 (or even 13-9 and 10-12) right up until the time runs out. It keeps things interesting, at least.

Still, we manage to do OK for ourselves for the most part, and anyone who has played with us (a few of them haunt these boards from time to time) will confirm that we have developed some traditions to help herd the cats. One is the "Battle Stations!" call (followed by "Enterprise"-style whooping) that goes up just before the start of a round, which recalls people from their table-to-table visiting (and sometimes the rest room) and refocuses people from their half-dozen different conversations back to the game. Another very important one is multiple re-broadcasting precalls or guesses so that the whole room can hear, preferably by the number of the answer (e.g., "FRODO says 4!"). Occasionally these things help us transmute chaos into gold (or silver, or bronze), so I guess it is alchemy of a sort.



If the Mad River team ever relocates to a quieter location friendlier to trivia, we had all better watch out. It sounds like it has consistently been one of the top teams in the continent with one arm tied securely behind its back.

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Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."

Someone told me that they would like a list of winners arranged by tournament. Here you go:

McCarthy Cup and Sandbag Tournament Champions

McCarthy Cup Champions

1998 Catbird's, Houston, TX

1999 East Side Mario's, Las Vegas, NV

2000 Stadium Cafe, Dallas. TX

2001 Grand Slam, Washington, DC

2002 Grand Slam, Washington, DC

2004 Grand Slam, Washington, DC

2005 A&M Roadhouse, New York, NY

2006 B4 (formerly A&M Roadhouse), New York, NY

2007 Grand Slam, Washington, DC

2008 "The Fellowship," Damon's in Stow, OH

2009 Fletcher’s Pub, Kalamazoo, MI

2010 “The Fellowship,” Damon’s in Twinsburg, OH

2011 Danny K’s, Orange, CA

2012 Concert Pub, Houston, TX

2013 “The Fellowship,” Stringz and Wingz in Streetsboro, OH

2014 Buffalo Wild Wings—Arlington, VA (formerly Grand Slam)

2015 Danny K's, Orange, CA

2016 Danny K's, Orange, CA

2017 “The Fellowship,” BWW-Kent, OH

2018 Buffalo Wild Wings—Arlington, VA (formerly Grand Slam)

2019 Buffalo Wild Wings—Arlington, VA (formerly Grand Slam)

2020-2021 COVID

2022 "The Fellowship," Red Fox Pub in Cuyahoga Falls, OH



Sandbag Tournament Champions

2007/2008 “The Fellowship,” Damon’s in Stow, OH

2008 Grand Slam, Washington, DC

2009 Fletcher’s, Kalamazoo, MI

2010 “The Fellowship,” Damon’s in Twinsburg, OH

2011 Concert Pub, Houston, TX

2012 “The Fellowship,” Stringz & Wingz, Streetsboro, OH

2013 “The Fellowship,” Stringz & Wingz, Streetsboro, OH

2014 “The Fellowship,” BWW-Kent, OH

2015 "The Fellowship," BWW-Kent, OH

2016 Danny K's, Orange, CA

2017 “The Fellowship,” BWW-Kent, OH

2018 Mad River, New York, NY

2019 "The Fellowship," Red Fox Sports Pub and Grille, Cuyahoga Falls, OH

2020-2021 COVID

2022 Danny K's, Orange CA

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Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."

1999 East Side Mario's, Las Vegas, NV


BO's personal favorite winner...

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Buzztime is a company full of dumbshits.

HELIX accepted that trophy in person at the Houston bash, don't drag me into that....

As mentioned in another thread, I have recently updated this list to include all previous tournaments back to 1999. I need help to reconstruct the first tournament in 1998. I would be much obliged if anyone could provide me with anything on this.

Thanks!

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Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."

This had not been updated for awhile, so I did that. Also, once again if anyone has more information about the first tournament in 1998, I would love to have it--thanks!

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Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."

I guess Coogs and Ardvrk had no info on Catbirds opposition before the final in the 1998 tourney? Who else was playing with them back in 1998? Was it VEX/ Bryan Guilliams? Or Happy?

As for Maggie Mae's, they are in Queens NY. That would suggest NY Davy, any contact with him to see what he remembers? Or Xtrain maybe?

Good luck.

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BUD - Stained Glass Pub Silver Spring MD
OC BUD - Grotto Pizza DE near Ocean City MD

LET'S GO ....Caps and Os!!!!

AARDVK tried to find her emails from back then but was unsuccessful. Although I was playing back then, I was not aware of the community, so I don't know who all else might have records from then



Thanks--I really should ask NY Davy if he knows more. I think XTRAIN may have been one of the people who supplied me with Maggie Mae's.

I have also contacted Kevin Vahey, who said he'd try to dig some stuff up when he had the chance. I may try contacting him again.

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Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."

This had not been updated for a while. Danny K's has been on quite a roll of late.

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Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."

As long as I was doing bookkeeping on other threads, I updated this one too. I'm still hoping for data on the first McCarthy Cup if anyone has any.

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Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."

In anticipation of the upcoming McCarthy Cup, I updated these lists for the first time in awhile. Tournament minutia mavens of the world, rejoice!

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Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."

I've updated this again, hopefully not for the last time.

I'd still like to know more about the first McCarthy Cup, if anyone has any records or recollections about who faced who in which round.

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Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."