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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:04 pm 
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Lotsa Posta
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At least you can say that you didn't get beat by a bunch of rookies. Danny K's has some great players and I have been known to play there sometimes, but not for Showdown. I just consider myself average, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Lotsa Posta

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:33 am
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Gogetem wrote:
I just consider myself average, of course.


Yeah, I've heard that one before.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:48 am 
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The Sandbag Trophy will be moving this year.

In a clash of Sandbag champions, former champion The Fellowship ousted defending champion Danny K's in one semifinal match, while 7-seed Tilted Kilt "upset" 3-seed Tailgate:

1 The Fellowship, BWW-Kent OH, 61,316
5 Danny K's, Orange CA, 51,660

3 Tailgate Sports Cafe, Minneapolis MN, 38,740
7 Tilted Kilt, Scottsdale AZ, 52,729

I say "upset" because once you get to this level, there really is no such thing--as mentioned last week, Cinderella left the ball long ago. While the folks at Danny K's and Tailgate are understandably disappointed today, they should not lose sight of the fact that they have placed themselves among the elite: not just of this tournament, but of all the teams that have ever played the game. While it is a rare accomplishment to make the semifinals in a major tournament like this, it is much rarer still to make several appearances. This is the 30th major (McCarthy and Sandbag) tournament on record. In all those tournaments, only 14 teams have made three or more appearances in the semifinals. Four of those teams no longer play. Thus, Danny K's and Tailgate are de facto among the top ten most successful existing tournament teams in history. Congrats to them, and we expect to see them this spring in the McCarthy Cup.

So, this week's final match will be:

1 The Fellowship, BWW-Kent OH
7 Tilted Kilt, Scottsdale AZ

If you are feeling a vague shiver of deja vu, don't worry--it's not an illusion. This is a rematch of the 2015 Sandbag Tournament finals. And lest anyone think that seeding matters in the finals, the data show that this just isn't true. There have been 20 major tournament since the first Sandbag in 2007. Of those 20 tournaments, the lower seed has won 10. In other words, a coin flip would be as accurate a predictor of finals winners as would be picking the higher seed. With two of 2017's top-ten teams facing off, the final result should not really be a surprise no matter who wins.

With that in mind, The Fellowship wishes our rivals in Scottsdale good skill this week for what should be a tense final for both teams.

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"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Lotsa Posta

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:33 am
Posts: 710
ANON wrote:
...7-seed Tilted Kilt "upset" 3-seed Tailgate...


While the Tailgate generally played through last night's quiz smoothly, ARKUAT and I traded bad answers on the last two questions, regarding the rock squirrel and cyclopses - not the place to stumble in Showdown! It may be that we've been punching above our weight the last few months. Last spring we couldn't crack the final 16, so this 4th place finish feels like a success.

I imagine that The Tilted Kilt wasn't much bothered that the Fellowship and Danny K's were seeded against each other. What's better than to have someone else do the heavy lifting?


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Before you make this result final, you might want to wait for BT to fix their website. Scores are from 7/20, apparently.

For example, the scores from my sire (Cameron's Half Moon Bay) don't seem to match with what we scored last night at all.

I have contacted BT and I hope others have, too.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:12 pm 
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Yeah, the date has been wrong on these things ever since they messed with the site in September (for a while, in fact, we were playing in the "0th" month).

Someone on our team took pictures of the Network rankings after Showdown, and the results hold up, at least for the semifinal teams. Thanks for the heads-up, though!

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"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Location: Gaithersburg MD (suburb NW of DC)
The problem with the date for scores just seemes to be digits moved over a few columns.

The 7/20 was actually 11/7/2017.

The Spotlight scores for 11/3/2017 read 3/20, Playback said 4/20. :mrgreen: 8-)

The 0th month was probably 10/30/2017.

The scores seem right for us at bww Gaithersburg.

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:33 am 
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BUD wrote:
The problem with the date for scores just seemes to be digits moved over a few columns.

The 7/20 was actually 11/7/2017.

The Spotlight scores for 11/3/2017 read 3/20, Playback said 4/20. :mrgreen: 8-)

The 0th month was probably 10/30/2017.

The scores seem right for us at bww Gaithersburg.


Thanks! That explains a lot.

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Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:05 am 
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Both of the finalists put up top-ten efforts last night, but when the dust settled, The Fellowship regained the cup:

1 The Fellowship, BWW-Kent OH 55,890
7 Tilted Kilt, Scottsdale AZ 48,618

First of all, let's give some well-deserved credit and a tip of the hat to Tilted Kilt, which slew several giants--usually as an underdog--to get to the final game: Mad River, The Ragged Rascals in Albuquerque, and Tailgate. The team in Scottsdale is one of the most venerable still playing the game. Its first finals appearance (the 2001 McCarthy Cup, then playing at Stooges) was three years before The Fellowship first played together and six years before it won its first game at Damon's-Stow. Tilted Kilt also has the longest quarterfinals streak of any team right now (five straight tournaments). Few teams have competed at such a high level for so long; and it continues to have the immense respect of The Fellowship.

So the Sandbag Cup will be returning to Northeast Ohio again. The Fellowship would like to acknowledge and thank Danny K's for being a formidable champion and custodian of the trophy. I would also like to thank Danny K's personally--I was honored to serve as your commissioner this year

Before closing the books on this year's tournament, I would like to offer a few final thoughts. Taking off my commissioner's hat for a moment and speaking just as a player, I want to express my deepest admiration and gratitude to my teammates in The Fellowship. It continues to be an honor to play for a team that can do things like win eleven major (McCarthy and Sandbag) tournaments in twenty-one tries; but at the same time never lose sight of the fact that it is only a game, and that the main reason that we play is just to hang out together and have fun. Win or lose, that mission is always accomplished, and I love you all for it.

Putting back on my commissioner's cap one last time, I would like to thank you, the person reading this, and everyone else who participated in this year's Sandbag Tournament. In many ways the trophy represents what is best about the Buzztime player community--with very little prompting, dozens of teams chipped in what turned out to be a couple hundred dollars more than ten years ago to purchase a beautiful silver cup to create another fun tournament. The community has continued to sustain it with its participation, creating memorable upsets, tournament runs, and Cinderella stories. I am deeply appreciative of all of you. Please express my genuine thanks on behalf of the team at Danny K's to all of your teammates for their participation; and I hope you will sign up for the McCarthy Cup that will be contested this spring.

And now, in accordance with tradition, I declare the 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament closed, and I call upon the Triviots of the world to assemble a few months from now to celebrate the 20th(!) Annual McCarthy Cup Tournament, to be hosted by The Fellowship at BWW-Kent, Ohio.

*Darkness falls as the flame slowly extinguishes. The music swells, and dewy-eyed observers look on silently.*

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Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Lotsa Posta

Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:16 am
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Meet the new boss, same as the old boss....

Congratulations to the Fellowship at BW-Kent!

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Lotsa Posta

Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:16 am
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Medal vs. Match Play:

An ongoing discussion in the golf world is whether medal play (total strokes) or match play (who wins each hole) is a better indicator of championship. Many suggest medal play: if one plays long enough and everything counts, sooner or later the best will be revealed. Match play would show ability to overcome any opponent one on one, face to face when it counts.

With apologies for the columns not lining up, we know the match play results and medal play below shows the same thing. Kent can wear the Green Jacket and hold the Ryder Cup.

I hope to be just like them when I grow up. Off to the driving range.


Wk1 Wk2 Wk3 Wk4 Tot

BW Kent 62,507 58,376 61,316 55,890 238,089
Teasers 62,278 58,537 52,048 44,159 217,022
Tilted Kilt 61,642 48,801 52,729 48,618 211,790
Danny K's 60,943 60,194 51,660 37,457 210,254
BW Albuquerque 58,653 44,005 55,097 50,023 207,778
Scooters 54,356 52,308 52,690 44,221 203,575
Houlihan's 55,707 45,984 49,330 48,749 199,770
Tailgate 61,115 46,087 38,740 46,578 192,520
Big Guys 61,638 28,731 51,153 43,518 185,040
Mad River 57,627 34,762 42,926 47,695 183,010
Old Barn 58,614 29,345 42,612 51,941 182,512
BW Oklahoma City 49,931 51,995 30,359 49,070 181,355
BW Kalamazoo 60,527 26,748 25,550 44,134 156,959
Blue Goose 59,114 43,461 0 0 102,575
West Park 51,069 40,673 0 0 91,742
BW Arlington 57,328 5,297 0 0 62,625

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Annual Sandbag Tournament Rules and Signup
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:53 pm 
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Thanks for crunching the numbers on this, MERKIN! I had actually wondered about this in some past tournaments where we either got "lucky" one week and moved on, or got "unlucky" and got knocked out. It turns out that in those few tournaments I looked at, sometimes medal play would have yielded a different final result than match play.

Of course this does show that there were differences once you moved down from the top spot: Teaser's, of course, finishes higher, as does Scooter's, Houlihan's, and some others.

I have wondered, though, about whether yet a third method might produce different results, and that is using ranking rather than scores in a medal play context. Rankings, I think, possibly reflect cleaner relative positions than raw scores do. For example, in a hard game Team A finishes #1 with 60,000, Team B finishes 2nd with 55,000, and team C finishes 10th with 50,000. There is the same 5,000-point difference between B and C, Team B did significantly better in the rankings. When you add differences up among games--some of which are harder or easier--it can be even more acute a difference. We've seen plenty of games in which a 50k score wins, whereas the next week it is in the 20s somewhere. All scores are not created equal, but rankings are always relative. Maybe someday I'll crunch some numbers on that.

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"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."


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