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 Post subject: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:22 am 
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IMHO, this game needs to go. It was fun for a while, but now is boring.

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:38 am 
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Gogetem wrote:
IMHO, this game needs to go. It was fun for a while, but now is boring.


I disagree - I think it's the purest game format to test real trivia knowledge. The subject matter trends too far toward pop culture for my taste but that's a given. To know things for sure, without clues, and with immediate recall from your own brain alone, is the best measure we can get to.

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:55 pm 
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Rhino wrote:
Gogetem wrote:
IMHO, this game needs to go. It was fun for a while, but now is boring.


I disagree - I think it's the purest game format to test real trivia knowledge. The subject matter trends too far toward pop culture for my taste but that's a given. To know things for sure, without clues, and with immediate recall from your own brain alone, is the best measure we can get to.


If it weren't so heavily dependent on the speed of the boxes, that would be true. Whoever gets one of the two fastest boxes at our bar is going to win every time (boxes 10 and 11).


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:03 pm 
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I still love the game and there are quite a few people at our bar who come in on Wednesdays for it. I can see how a slow-responding box could be frustrating, but the game's still great.


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:11 pm 
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Rhino wrote:
Gogetem wrote:
IMHO, this game needs to go. It was fun for a while, but now is boring.


I disagree - I think it's the purest game format to test real trivia knowledge. The subject matter trends too far toward pop culture for my taste but that's a given. To know things for sure, without clues, and with immediate recall from your own brain alone, is the best measure we can get to.


I still find the game fun as well - especially if you have enough people with different backgrounds and strengths playing


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Dante wrote:
Rhino wrote:
Gogetem wrote:
IMHO, this game needs to go. It was fun for a while, but now is boring.


I disagree - I think it's the purest game format to test real trivia knowledge. The subject matter trends too far toward pop culture for my taste but that's a given. To know things for sure, without clues, and with immediate recall from your own brain alone, is the best measure we can get to.


If it weren't so heavily dependent on the speed of the boxes, that would be true. Whoever gets one of the two fastest boxes at our bar is going to win every time (boxes 10 and 11).


That does ruin the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Its a game that you need to four boxes just make sure you are right. I agree that if the same winner is there, then there's NO CHANCE IN HELL. :evil: :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:25 pm 
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stevej84 wrote:
Rhino wrote:
Gogetem wrote:
IMHO, this game needs to go. It was fun for a while, but now is boring.


I disagree - I think it's the purest game format to test real trivia knowledge. The subject matter trends too far toward pop culture for my taste but that's a given. To know things for sure, without clues, and with immediate recall from your own brain alone, is the best measure we can get to.


I still find the game fun as well - especially if you have enough people with different backgrounds and strengths playing


Agreed. I think that's what makes it fun for my small group. We all have different strengths and Speed Freaks really highlights that. We have a blast with this game. I also agree that the response time from the boxes can be an issue. Our bar is also lucky enough to have never run into the issue of jackasses just hitting random buttons as fast as they can. That would ruin it for anyone of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:09 pm 
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Dante wrote:
Rhino wrote:
Gogetem wrote:
IMHO, this game needs to go. It was fun for a while, but now is boring.


I disagree - I think it's the purest game format to test real trivia knowledge. The subject matter trends too far toward pop culture for my taste but that's a given. To know things for sure, without clues, and with immediate recall from your own brain alone, is the best measure we can get to.


If it weren't so heavily dependent on the speed of the boxes, that would be true. Whoever gets one of the two fastest boxes at our bar is going to win every time (boxes 10 and 11).



But then you have the luxury of playing in a setting where there is more than one player who can find their ass with both hands. Unfortunately, I am not so blessed. I play Speed Freaks now one box right or wrong, and I'm playing for score not to beat up on the occasional poor schlub who wanders in off the street. There's nobody who could cause me much harm if I took the worst box and gave them the best. That is not incidentally because I am so wonderful, but because my competition is nil to terrible.

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:11 pm 
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This game can also be ruined by numbnuts blindly guessing or pushing buttons immediately... I was recently playing at a BWW and I swear there was a table of 4 such numbnuts, each with a dedicated button. Every question, one of them would get the correct answer in about .01 seconds...

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Well, my experiences with Speed Freaks have varied depending on the day played. Wednesdays at Pacific Beach Bar & Grill, the lil group that gathers primarily to play Six has had a different designated hitter each week, with everyone else ready if the DH doesn't get the right answer. Friday at Gilly's (and the two most recent trips outside The (Just Plain Old) Site-Poor Backyard to Mr. B's), it's everyone for themselves. So far none of these has had to put up with the crap that others have had of four others each hitting a designated number. Image

OTOH, I respectfully disagree that this game (or, for that matter, any game offered by NTN Buzztime) is so wonderfully sanctified Image or whatever to qualify as a valid measure of either an individual's knowledge, or a group's collaborative and collective knowledge.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:56 pm 
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liljol wrote:
Well, my experiences with Speed Freaks have varied depending on the day played. Wednesdays at Pacific Beach Bar & Grill, the lil group that gathers primarily to play Six has had a different designated hitter each week, with everyone else ready if the DH doesn't get the right answer. Friday at Gilly's (and the two most recent trips outside The (Just Plain Old) Site-Poor Backyard to Mr. B's), it's everyone for themselves. So far none of these has had to put up with the crap that others have had of four others each hitting a designated number. Image

OTOH, I respectfully disagree that this game (or, for that matter, any game offered by NTN Buzztime) is so wonderfully sanctified Image or whatever to qualify as a valid measure of either an individual's knowledge, or a group's collaborative and collective knowledge.
Image



Didn't mention validity, only best possible measure. And let's not be so quick to dismiss even validity if we are discussing trivia knowledge, as opposed to intellect or overall mental acuity. What else but a large database of trivia could be valid for that?

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:15 pm 
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Rhino wrote:
liljol wrote:
Well, my experiences with Speed Freaks have varied depending on the day played. Wednesdays at Pacific Beach Bar & Grill, the lil group that gathers primarily to play Six has had a different designated hitter each week, with everyone else ready if the DH doesn't get the right answer. Friday at Gilly's (and the two most recent trips outside The (Just Plain Old) Site-Poor Backyard to Mr. B's), it's everyone for themselves. So far none of these has had to put up with the crap that others have had of four others each hitting a designated number. Image

OTOH, I respectfully disagree that this game (or, for that matter, any game offered by NTN Buzztime) is so wonderfully sanctified Image or whatever to qualify as a valid measure of either an individual's knowledge, or a group's collaborative and collective knowledge.
Image
Didn't mention validity, only best possible measure. And let's not be so quick to dismiss even validity if we are discussing trivia knowledge, as opposed to intellect or overall mental acuity. What else but a large database of trivia could be valid for that?
I have to reject the suggestion that pushing a lil button a lil faster than someone else is a measure of intellect and/or acuity, especially given the known issues with Playmaker response. Further, even if one does manage to push that lil button a lil faster without lag issues, does that necessarily prove that the button pusher knew the answer, or was merely a lil lucky with their guess?

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<--805 NTN Buzztime sites visited as of 11/13/2018...

F CUBS!!!!! FBOSOX!!!!!

FPDRES!!!!! FCHGRS!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:52 pm 
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This thread is giving me deja vu. Something about a forum on another site...


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:22 pm 
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MRBRNS wrote:
This thread is giving me deja vu. Something about a forum on another site...
Hells bells, would you rather bring back another thread featuring those hopelessly brain frozen minnesnowtans? Image

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<--805 NTN Buzztime sites visited as of 11/13/2018...

F CUBS!!!!! FBOSOX!!!!!

FPDRES!!!!! FCHGRS!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:31 am 
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Lotsa Posta
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liljol wrote:
MRBRNS wrote:
This thread is giving me deja vu. Something about a forum on another site...
Hells bells, would you rather bring back another thread featuring those hopelessly brain frozen minnesnowtans? Image

I can guarantee that I won't be stringing this topic out. There were some valid points and disagreements made here. That's good. I merely stated my opinion. I do like some of the questions, but the button pushing and different responses of the boxes arguments do have merit. In addition, there were no topics posted in this thread. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:48 am 
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This game has serious flaws. If all boxes were created equal and there were no national boards this would be a fun game. It is time the Buzzies found a new game to take its place. This game needs to go to the graveyard with BOTS, Know Your Server and the other flash in the pan games.


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:49 am 
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liljol wrote:
Rhino wrote:
liljol wrote:
Well, my experiences with Speed Freaks have varied depending on the day played. Wednesdays at Pacific Beach Bar & Grill, the lil group that gathers primarily to play Six has had a different designated hitter each week, with everyone else ready if the DH doesn't get the right answer. Friday at Gilly's (and the two most recent trips outside The (Just Plain Old) Site-Poor Backyard to Mr. B's), it's everyone for themselves. So far none of these has had to put up with the crap that others have had of four others each hitting a designated number. Image

OTOH, I respectfully disagree that this game (or, for that matter, any game offered by NTN Buzztime) is so wonderfully sanctified Image or whatever to qualify as a valid measure of either an individual's knowledge, or a group's collaborative and collective knowledge.
Image
Didn't mention validity, only best possible measure. And let's not be so quick to dismiss even validity if we are discussing trivia knowledge, as opposed to intellect or overall mental acuity. What else but a large database of trivia could be valid for that?
I have to reject the suggestion that pushing a lil button a lil faster than someone else is a measure of intellect and/or acuity, especially given the known issues with Playmaker response. Further, even if one does manage to push that lil button a lil faster without lag issues, does that necessarily prove that the button pusher knew the answer, or was merely a lil lucky with their guess?



Quit bringing up the strawman about intellect or acuity as I already denied that. That's bush league.

But faster recall IS a part of trivia knowledge. If you don't have to go "hum. ah, wait a minute" that is an indication you have faster and more certain recall. Lag issues are relevant only amongst VERY closely matched players, and should even out over a large sample unless we have box-hoarding issues too. The same would go for guessing. Surely you don't imagine I was suggesting any inference be drawn from a single game? However over a 50 game average, how much more likely is one person to guess with the speed and overwhelming success necessary to get a better average than a player who is in fact, better at trivia recall than them?

It's pretty simple statistics. Take a large enough sample of scores froom two players. Check that they are statistically speaking different populations (reject the null hypothesis), and hey presto the higher scoring one has better trivia knowledge. Might not be as good an engineer or musician. Might not be as charming or emotionally secure. Might not even have a higher IQ. But knows and can recall more trivia. Why is that so threatening a concept?

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:33 pm 
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The only time I have had a good experience with the game is once when I played it alone. I found it a pretty interesting and challenging combination of questions. When played with others it is either crap from the get-go with some idiot always pressing some fixed number, say one, as soon as the question appears and his/her idiot buddy sitting next to them doing the same on some other number OR it becomes very close to that when good players are playing and they realize they need to hit a few quick because they are behind by enough points that they have no shot unless they get lucky soon.

I don't know - most of the games seem to have gone to shit. I've noticed the percentage of less than stellar players pulling off "wins" to be higher than even 6 months ago of late. Maybe it is due to the influx of mindless entertainment questions or maybe I am just so uninterested in the game now that I don't play as well as I used to but the fun factor for me has fallen significantly. I don't play anywhere near as often as I used to. Then again, I've seen the number of players who play on a regular basis each week increase at Dickmanns so perhaps their strategy works....


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:01 pm 
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Rhino wrote:
But faster recall IS a part of trivia knowledge.


I assume that you meant to say that faster recall is part of trivia competition.
Otherwise, who cares how long it takes to come up with useless facts while just sitting around the house twiddling one's thumbs?


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Location: Gaithersburg MD (suburb NW of DC)
I'm going to say this game NEEDS TO GO. It's worthless at our bar.

Hardtimes is similar to the Louisville situation, if you don't get a good box forget it. (there are 3 fast boxes the rest are slower)

If you know you don't have a good box you just start guessing without reading the question because that's the only shot. That's terrible and I won't do that any more.

WORTHLESS game unless you are alone or only one other player.
That doesn't happen around here.

From time to time we also have the 2 newbies who just hit random numbers, again making it no fun.

We've done the DH deal like LILJOL said.

Now we just kill Speed Freaks and play the optional BT with 20+ other bars.

Why don't some of the rest of you do the same until the buzzies axe this game. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:47 pm 
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spotes wrote:
Rhino wrote:
But faster recall IS a part of trivia knowledge.


I assume that you meant to say that faster recall is part of trivia competition.
Otherwise, who cares how long it takes to come up with useless facts while just sitting around the house twiddling one's thumbs?



Actually no I didn't. There is a difference in the level of knowledge required for instant recall and that for recall after a few seconds. The semantics incidentally are deceptive. Not all trivia is trivial. Even if it were however, being able to recall it instantly indicates superior knowledge to those who need clues or time to process.

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:48 pm 
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BUD wrote:
I'm going to say this game NEEDS TO GO. It's worthless at our bar.

Hardtimes is similar to the Louisville situation, if you don't get a good box forget it. (there are 3 fast boxes the rest are slower)

If you know you don't have a good box you just start guessing without reading the question because that's the only shot. That's terrible and I won't do that any more.

WORTHLESS game unless you are alone or only one other player.
That doesn't happen around here.

From time to time we also have the 2 newbies who just hit random numbers, again making it no fun.

We've done the DH deal like LILJOL said.

Now we just kill Speed Freaks and play the optional BT with 20+ other bars.

Why don't some of the rest of you do the same until the buzzies axe this game. :)


20+ bars??? That's about 1/4 of the bars who kill SciFiles! And less than that ratio of those who killed the ridiculous Raceday and HHOF when they were default games!

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:52 pm 
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Location: Gaithersburg MD (suburb NW of DC)
Rhino wrote:
BUD wrote:
I'm going to say this game NEEDS TO GO. It's worthless at our bar.

Hardtimes is similar to the Louisville situation, if you don't get a good box forget it. (there are 3 fast boxes the rest are slower)

If you know you don't have a good box you just start guessing without reading the question because that's the only shot. That's terrible and I won't do that any more.

WORTHLESS game unless you are alone or only one other player.
That doesn't happen around here.

From time to time we also have the 2 newbies who just hit random numbers, again making it no fun.

We've done the DH deal like LILJOL said.

Now we just kill Speed Freaks and play the optional BT with 20+ other bars.

Why don't some of the rest of you do the same until the buzzies axe this game. :)


20+ bars??? That's about 1/4 of the bars who kill SciFiles! And less than that ratio of those who killed the ridiculous Raceday and HHOF when they were default games!


Right, so why don't more of you kill Freaks and come on over & try to beat us. We'll get this number a lot higher as more people realize there is a choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:53 pm 
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Rhino wrote:
Actually no I didn't. There is a difference in the level of knowledge required for instant recall and that for recall after a few seconds. The semantics incidentally are deceptive. Not all trivia is trivial. Even if it were however, being able to recall it instantly indicates superior knowledge to those who need clues or time to process.


There are two independent factors at play here.
One is having an accessible storehouse of knowledge, large or small.
Two is being able to retrieve it, fast or slow.
The best trivia players are, of course, excellent in both regards but speed is only a positive attribute when that speed is being measured against the speed of others. That's the only time it's ever relevant to the conversation, in competition.
Speed of recall has absolutely nothing to do with the storage capacity of the database. I know lots of people that know plenty of useless crap and will come up with it in a sufficient amount of time... eventually... :) They aren't exactly rock solid in the BT format because of this, but they still definitely know their stuff. Lack of a faster recall ability does not negate the fact that they know the information.
Now, as to which one might be more important for our sort of trivia set-tos, I would probably lean toward the faster ability to access the info. That is where more people seem deficient.


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