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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:36 pm 
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spotes wrote:
Rhino wrote:
Actually no I didn't. There is a difference in the level of knowledge required for instant recall and that for recall after a few seconds. The semantics incidentally are deceptive. Not all trivia is trivial. Even if it were however, being able to recall it instantly indicates superior knowledge to those who need clues or time to process.


There are two independent factors at play here.
One is having an accessible storehouse of knowledge, large or small.
Two is being able to retrieve it, fast or slow.
The best trivia players are, of course, excellent in both regards but speed is only a positive attribute when that speed is being measured against the speed of others. That's the only time it's ever relevant to the conversation, in competition.
Speed of recall has absolutely nothing to do with the storage capacity of the database. I know lots of people that know plenty of useless crap and will come up with it in a sufficient amount of time... eventually... :) They aren't exactly rock solid in the BT format because of this, but they still definitely know their stuff. Lack of a faster recall ability does not negate the fact that they know the information.
Now, as to which one might be more important for our sort of trivia set-tos, I would probably lean toward the faster ability to access the info. That is where more people seem deficient.


You would understand if you drank.


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:31 pm 
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BUD wrote:
Rhino wrote:
BUD wrote:
I'm going to say this game NEEDS TO GO. It's worthless at our bar.

Hardtimes is similar to the Louisville situation, if you don't get a good box forget it. (there are 3 fast boxes the rest are slower)

If you know you don't have a good box you just start guessing without reading the question because that's the only shot. That's terrible and I won't do that any more.

WORTHLESS game unless you are alone or only one other player.
That doesn't happen around here.

From time to time we also have the 2 newbies who just hit random numbers, again making it no fun.

We've done the DH deal like LILJOL said.

Now we just kill Speed Freaks and play the optional BT with 20+ other bars.

Why don't some of the rest of you do the same until the buzzies axe this game. :)


20+ bars??? That's about 1/4 of the bars who kill SciFiles! And less than that ratio of those who killed the ridiculous Raceday and HHOF when they were default games!


Right, so why don't more of you kill Freaks and come on over & try to beat us. We'll get this number a lot higher as more people realize there is a choice.


Nope I'll stick to the better game. It's one where teamers at least have to modify their approach to get their usual advantage so it's a more level playing field than I am used to.

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:39 pm 
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spotes wrote:
Rhino wrote:
Actually no I didn't. There is a difference in the level of knowledge required for instant recall and that for recall after a few seconds. The semantics incidentally are deceptive. Not all trivia is trivial. Even if it were however, being able to recall it instantly indicates superior knowledge to those who need clues or time to process.


There are two independent factors at play here.
One is having an accessible storehouse of knowledge, large or small.
Two is being able to retrieve it, fast or slow.
The best trivia players are, of course, excellent in both regards but speed is only a positive attribute when that speed is being measured against the speed of others. That's the only time it's ever relevant to the conversation, in competition.
Speed of recall has absolutely nothing to do with the storage capacity of the database. I know lots of people that know plenty of useless crap and will come up with it in a sufficient amount of time... eventually... :) They aren't exactly rock solid in the BT format because of this, but they still definitely know their stuff. Lack of a faster recall ability does not negate the fact that they know the information.
Now, as to which one might be more important for our sort of trivia set-tos, I would probably lean toward the faster ability to access the info. That is where more people seem deficient.



This is probably getting into hair splitting but I still see speed of recall as a valid metavariable in measurement of knowledge. Think of it this way: regardless of competitive setting, who would you say has a deeper and more secure knowledge of, to pick a recent Topix, the Indian campaign of Alexander the Great; the person who can rattle off the dates, opposing generals, and mortality stats in chronological order within seconds and flawlessly, or the one who given a few minutes and a pencil and eraser could get to the same info, especially if helped by clues and time to consider them? Speed Freaks takes away the clues and much of/most of the time to consider them (assuming you are playing against even passable competition). Thus the first person with the surer recall will prevail, as they should. This is not a question of competition being the end goal, but of competition more closely measuring actual ability.

The opposite is true of, say, the Pyramid Round in SD, where immediate recall that comes from certain knowledge is rewarded no more than the gambit to play slowly, eliminate the distractors and discuss the rest and go for the best option. Which player/team really has the most knowledge of that trivia datum?

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:29 pm 
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Rhino wrote:
This is probably getting into hair splitting but I still see speed of recall as a valid metavariable in measurement of knowledge. Think of it this way: regardless of competitive setting, who would you say has a deeper and more secure knowledge of, to pick a recent Topix, the Indian campaign of Alexander the Great; the person who can rattle off the dates, opposing generals, and mortality stats in chronological order within seconds and flawlessly, or the one who given a few minutes and a pencil and eraser could get to the same info, especially if helped by clues and time to consider them? Speed Freaks takes away the clues and much of/most of the time to consider them (assuming you are playing against even passable competition). Thus the first person with the surer recall will prevail, as they should. This is not a question of competition being the end goal, but of competition more closely measuring actual ability.

The opposite is true of, say, the Pyramid Round in SD, where immediate recall that comes from certain knowledge is rewarded no more than the gambit to play slowly, eliminate the distractors and discuss the rest and go for the best option. Which player/team really has the most knowledge of that trivia datum?


So you consider the ability to recall knowledge a type of knowledge?
Is that like being in love with the idea of being in love? :)
I consider recall a simple skill set. An amazingly complex and wonderfully hard to define simple skill set.
As to your example, in a competition where speed is a necessity, the first player, for that question set at least, is the best choice.
Without any sort of competition involved, I would have no preference for either. That was the crux of my original post.
My original post was made as a general statement because I thought that was how you were responding to liljol.
If you were foolishly trying to stay on topic :P and your reference to trivia competitions was assumed, then what the heck am I doing here? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:02 am 
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Route

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I like the game.
I have always had fun playing it, even when shut out of my 2000 point goal.
suggestion for ind joes: dont have any of the group use box 10 or 11 for this game.
There could be ways to make this a better game...

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:33 pm 
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spotes wrote:
Rhino wrote:
This is probably getting into hair splitting but I still see speed of recall as a valid metavariable in measurement of knowledge. Think of it this way: regardless of competitive setting, who would you say has a deeper and more secure knowledge of, to pick a recent Topix, the Indian campaign of Alexander the Great; the person who can rattle off the dates, opposing generals, and mortality stats in chronological order within seconds and flawlessly, or the one who given a few minutes and a pencil and eraser could get to the same info, especially if helped by clues and time to consider them? Speed Freaks takes away the clues and much of/most of the time to consider them (assuming you are playing against even passable competition). Thus the first person with the surer recall will prevail, as they should. This is not a question of competition being the end goal, but of competition more closely measuring actual ability.

The opposite is true of, say, the Pyramid Round in SD, where immediate recall that comes from certain knowledge is rewarded no more than the gambit to play slowly, eliminate the distractors and discuss the rest and go for the best option. Which player/team really has the most knowledge of that trivia datum?


So you consider the ability to recall knowledge a type of knowledge?
Is that like being in love with the idea of being in love? :)
I consider recall a simple skill set. An amazingly complex and wonderfully hard to define simple skill set.
As to your example, in a competition where speed is a necessity, the first player, for that question set at least, is the best choice.
Without any sort of competition involved, I would have no preference for either. That was the crux of my original post.
My original post was made as a general statement because I thought that was how you were responding to liljol.
If you were foolishly trying to stay on topic :P and your reference to trivia competitions was assumed, then what the heck am I doing here? :D


Nope - I consider the ability to recall knowledge quickly an indicator that that knowledge is more profound and more secure than the knowledge possessed by those who need more time and/or clues. Give me twenty minutes and I could probably list all US presidents especially with a hint or two. I know a few people who can list them in order with dates within a minute and no prompting. We could both produce a complete list of all 43 presidents (yes it really is 43 not 44 for anyone thinking I erred here), but their knowledge of the list of US presidents is better than mine. To put it in Hoosier terms let's say both Kurt Busch and I can drive around a two mile track in a race car in one minute thirty seconds and that's all we each need to do, does it mean he's not a better driver because he could do it in less than a minute? If we are looking for a test of driving ability and we measure ability as being able to make that 90 second time, we both pass, just like immediate precallers and discuss/eliminate pickers can each get perfect Pyramid scores. But Busch is still a better driver than me and the precallers still have better trivia knowledge.

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:05 pm 
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The game is 15 minutes, i don't see how that's actually much of a bother to anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:05 pm 
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Our group enjoys Speed Freaks - it's a nice change of pace from our normal team play.


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:53 pm 
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I like Speed Freaks too, although I've been lucky not to have run into any random buttonpushers anyplace I've played. (Teasers, Brigadoon, BWW-Skokie, Carole's Next Best Thing, Celtic Crown).

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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:46 am 
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Dante wrote:
If it weren't so heavily dependent on the speed of the boxes, that would be true. Whoever gets one of the two fastest boxes at our bar is going to win every time (boxes 10 and 11).



Agreed. Box speed ruins the game, period.

Also, does it really make one "better" at trivia if they get a question in .5 seconds and someone else in .1? I don't think so.


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:43 pm 
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Tim wrote:
The game is 15 minutes, i don't see how that's actually much of a bother to anyone.


i agree that since this is only a 15 minute game, siiting this game out (for thoses who don't like it) might be an option. as for me, this is probably my favorite buzztime game. the more people who play the better. i do agree about the faster box, but i'll play whatever box i pick out. there have been many games that i have enjoyed that have been discontinued, i hope "speed freaks" doesn't join them.


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:26 pm 
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Rhino wrote:
liljol wrote:
Well, my experiences with Speed Freaks have varied depending on the day played. Wednesdays at Pacific Beach Bar & Grill, the lil group that gathers primarily to play Six has had a different designated hitter each week, with everyone else ready if the DH doesn't get the right answer. Friday at Gilly's (and the two most recent trips outside The (Just Plain Old) Site-Poor Backyard to Mr. B's), it's everyone for themselves. So far none of these has had to put up with the crap that others have had of four others each hitting a designated number. Image

OTOH, I respectfully disagree that this game (or, for that matter, any game offered by NTN Buzztime) is so wonderfully sanctified Image or whatever to qualify as a valid measure of either an individual's knowledge, or a group's collaborative and collective knowledge.
Image



Didn't mention validity, only best possible measure. And let's not be so quick to dismiss even validity if we are discussing trivia knowledge, as opposed to intellect or overall mental acuity. What else but a large database of trivia could be valid for that?



All I know is SPOTES schooled us last night... Nice job... We're gunning for you in sports though :)


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:05 am 
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On what rare chances I get to go out and play, I'm one that doesn't play Speed Freaks. Just one question on each box to get credit for having played the game, then I'll go out to hang with the smokers (not one myself, just like to chat). I'll cast a vote to have the game replaced.


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:32 am 
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Don't even bother trying to play with iPhone app. By the time the app tells you to answer, someone with a box already has answered it correctly. :evil:

TriviaJockey wrote:
Agreed. Box speed ruins the game, period.


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:13 pm 
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clark wrote:
All I know is SPOTES schooled us last night... Nice job... We're gunning for you in sports though :)


Danke.

It was one of those rare Speed Freaks occurrences where my being the only player at the bar and having questions to which I know the answers collide... :)

I would wish you good luck in sports trivia. But after last week I think I'll need to keep all the good luck that I can get my hands on... :( :D


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 Post subject: Re: Enough of Speed Freaks
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:56 pm 
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I don't see any reason why this game shouldn't stay around. Like someone else said, it is only fifteen minutes long and it provides a nice change of pace.


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 Post subject: "Speed Freaks" sucks...!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:53 pm 
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"Speed Freaks" sucks...!

The only good thing I can say about it, is that it gives me a very long break to go outside and smoke, not have to huff my cigarette down, and not have to worry about getting back late and missing the next question.

(I didn't read all the prior posts to this thread, and I'm sure I will repeat what other people, who hate the game, have said.)

It discriminates against senior citizens such as myself, who's reaction times are a wee bit slower than they were 40 years ago. All "Playmaker" boxes are not created equal, and some boxes seem to be faster than others. Some have said that it seems that proximity to the transceiver may also be a factor.

One time after being beat out a zillion times in a row, I decided to just machine gun a random button immediately, without even reading the question. Even when the random button was correct, I still got beat out.

Though it may have been a cute novelty at the beginning, "Speed Freaks" is without a question one of the WORST games NTN has ever created...!

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 Post subject: Re: "Speed Freaks" sucks...!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Cloudy wrote:
It discriminates against senior citizens such as myself, who's reaction times are a wee bit slower than they were 40 years ago.

By that logic BrainBuster discriminates against ordinary people because they are friggin' idiots. Playback discriminates against people who don't listen to music very often. Sports Trivia discriminates against women. Etc.

Quote:
Though it may have been a cute novelty at the beginning, "Speed Freaks" is without a question one of the WORST games NTN has ever created...!

I see. So you loved Know Your Server, Bluh, Duh, 10 question specialty games, and Zobmondo. And the fact remains that most people that detest certain games, royally suck at them.

BO


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 Post subject: Re: "Speed Freaks" sucks...!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:00 pm 
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-BO- wrote:
Cloudy wrote:
Though it may have been a cute novelty at the beginning, "Speed Freaks" is without a question one of the WORST games NTN has ever created...!

I see. So you loved Know Your Server, Bluh, Duh, 10 question specialty games, and Zobmondo. And the fact remains that most people that detest certain games, royally suck at them.

BO


"Know Your Server" is just as dumb as the Hooters only game "Are You Smarter than a Hooters Girl". Half the Hooters girls don't know diddley about NTN.

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 Post subject: Re: "Speed Freaks" sucks...!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:45 pm 
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Cloudy wrote:
"Speed Freaks" sucks...!

The only good thing I can say about it, is that it gives me a very long break to go outside and smoke, not have to huff my cigarette down, and not have to worry about getting back late and missing the next question.

(I didn't read all the prior posts to this thread, and I'm sure I will repeat what other people, who hate the game, have said.)

It discriminates against senior citizens such as myself, who's reaction times are a wee bit slower than they were 40 years ago. All "Playmaker" boxes are not created equal, and some boxes seem to be faster than others. Some have said that it seems that proximity to the transceiver may also be a factor.

One time after being beat out a zillion times in a row, I decided to just machine gun a random button immediately, without even reading the question. Even when the random button was correct, I still got beat out.

Though it may have been a cute novelty at the beginning, "Speed Freaks" is without a question one of the WORST games NTN has ever created...!


This game is on after your bed time and your teeth have been soaking for a good couple of hours by the time it is played.


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 Post subject: I am afraid to reply, but...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:25 pm 
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-BO- wrote:
Cloudy wrote:
It discriminates against senior citizens such as myself, who's reaction times are a wee bit slower than they were 40 years ago.


By that logic BrainBuster discriminates against ordinary people because they are friggin' idiots. Playback discriminates against people who don't listen to music very often. Sports Trivia discriminates against women. Etc.

Quote:
Though it may have been a cute novelty at the beginning, "Speed Freaks" is without a question one of the WORST games NTN has ever created...!


I see. So you loved Know Your Server, Bluh, Duh, 10 question specialty games, and Zobmondo. And the fact remains that most people that detest certain games, royally suck at them.

BO


I am afraid to reply, but I will.

The discrimination I was talking about had nothing to do with people's knowledge of different topics that you launched into. I would have thought, as smart as you are, you would have realized this. Of course different people will know more about different areas than others, and I have no problem with that. However, this is not the question here. The fact is that older people, who know the answers, are at a disadvantage on "Speed Freaks", because their reaction time is slower than younger people's, not because they don't know shit.

"I see. So you loved Know Your Server, Bluh, Duh, 10 question specialty games, and Zobmondo. And the fact remains that most people that detest certain games, royally suck at them."

That is so off the wall, I am struggling as how to reply to you. Please allow me to clue you in. When I said, "Though it may have been a cute novelty at the beginning..." never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that someone could possibly construe that to be an endorsement of other bad NTN games. Where did you ever come up with this wild idea?

p.s. Hopefully, your post was in jest, if not... :?:

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Last edited by Cloudy on Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Nah, I still have a bunch of teeth left...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:35 pm 
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Tolle wrote:
Cloudy wrote:
"Speed Freaks" sucks...!


This game is on after your bed time and your teeth have been soaking for a good couple of hours by the time it is played.


Nah, I still have a bunch of teeth left, but you're right about the bed time thing. However, I don't have to worry all that much about bed time these days. If I tuck myself in a little bit on the late side, I can sleep until noon (or later) the next day.

Oops, gotta change the water in the glass before I go to bed. :lol:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: I am afraid to reply, but...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:35 am 
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Cloudy wrote:
I am afraid to reply, but I will.

The discrimination I was talking about had nothing to do with people's knowledge of different topics that you launched into. I would have thought, as smart as you are, you would have realized this. Of course different people will know more about different areas than others, and I have no problem with that. However, this is not the question here. The fact is that older people, who know the answers, are at a disadvantage on "Speed Freaks", because their reaction time is slower than younger people's, not because they don't know shit.

That is so off the wall, I am struggling as how to reply to you. Please allow me to clue you in. When I said, "Though it may have been a cute novelty at the beginning..." never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that someone could possibly construe that to be an endorsement of other bad NTN games. Where did you ever come up with this wild idea?

p.s. Hopefully, your post was in jest, if not... :?:

I am 42 years old, therefore I stand no chance against a 21 year old who is half my age? I'll bitch slap every college puke you can find right back to their dorm room! :D

Look, SF is an excellent concept, and when played in the right setting, is a super game. Yes, players can simply machine gun answers and if there is more than one the fun is ruined. The reason many dislike it is because it's different than the rote (and slow) standard Q&A you find in nearly every game BT airs. Same thing happened with Restore Order. Players detested that because it involves reflexes and the small buttons. Me and a couple of teammates just laughed and won 80%+ of the games in the eastern/central time slot.

I like games that are different. The year round in SIQ and SL, matching rounds, etc. Rote Q&A is boring.

BO


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 Post subject: Okay, "Speed Freaks"is Okay...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:23 am 
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-BO- wrote:
Cloudy wrote:
I am afraid to reply, but I will.

The discrimination I was talking about had nothing to do with people's knowledge of different topics that you launched into. I would have thought, as smart as you are, you would have realized this. Of course different people will know more about different areas than others, and I have no problem with that. However, this is not the question here. The fact is that older people, who know the answers, are at a disadvantage on "Speed Freaks", because their reaction time is slower than younger people's, not because they don't know shit.

That is so off the wall, I am struggling as how to reply to you. Please allow me to clue you in. When I said, "Though it may have been a cute novelty at the beginning..." never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that someone could possibly construe that to be an endorsement of other bad NTN games. Where did you ever come up with this wild idea?

p.s. Hopefully, your post was in jest, if not... :?:

I am 42 years old, therefore I stand no chance against a 21 year old who is half my age? I'll bitch slap every college puke you can find right back to their dorm room! :D

Look, SF is an excellent concept, and when played in the right setting, is a super game. Yes, players can simply machine gun answers and if there is more than one the fun is ruined. The reason many dislike it is because it's different than the rote (and slow) standard Q&A you find in nearly every game BT airs. Same thing happened with Restore Order. Players detested that because it involves reflexes and the small buttons. Me and a couple of teammates just laughed and won 80%+ of the games in the eastern/central time slot.

I like games that are different. The year round in SIQ and SL, matching rounds, etc. Rote Q&A is boring.

BO


Okay, "Speed Freaks" is okay. I now understand that there are lot of people out there, who like to play it. The game is impossible for me and extremely frustrating, because even when I know the answers, I am almost always too late hitting the button.

p.s. You still have fast fingers at age 42...! :shock: Not bad for a guy, who isn't really a kid anymore. (Bo, I know you, and you look like you are in your late 20's.) Even though it seems that you have cheated the years, let me promise you, eventually they will catch up with you.

p.p.s. Okay, I caved in on "Speed Freaks". If you can find the time to return the favor, I could use your help on the "Computer Games New and Old" thread. Got a feeling that you could contribute a lot. Thanks :D

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 Post subject: Re: "Speed Freaks" sucks...!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:17 am 
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Cloudy wrote:
"Speed Freaks" sucks...!

It discriminates against senior citizens such as myself, who's reaction times are a wee bit slower than they were 40 years ago. Though it may have been a cute novelty at the beginning, "Speed Freaks" is without a question one of the WORST games NTN has ever created...!


You are correct. I always come in last against those 40 and 50 year old young whippersnappers.

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