The English Language

Dante · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:41 am

Rhino wrote:

Dante wrote:

I always imagine prescriptivists screaming (gruntly properly?) at our evolutionary ancestors: "Do not evolve! This is the way we should be, based on our brief experiences on this Earth!"

On the other hand, if it were not for people who care about a defined structure, there would have been no language in the first place to phrase that thought. If every small clan of troglodytic gibberers gets to decide what "Ook" means (and of course it means everything really - give that librarian a banana) and how to chisel it in stone, how then would they communicate with other clans? There is a reason that English literacy exploded not after Chaucer but after Caxton - who first standardized the language.

The big difference though in using a biological metaphor for a sociological construct is that by definition changes in the former that become the norm are superior, whereas the latter changes stick only if they are more popular. McDonalds sells the most hamburgers, but nobody sane considers them the best. Same for every other commodity that depends on popularity for its continued existence, including intellectual and aesthetic commodities. I cannot think of any example where the finest and most exquisite offering in any genre or category is the one most favored by the population at large. Can't imagine language being the one exception.

Well, two main things here.

Number one, it's a joke, not an intended functional analogy, so not digging into the second part there.

Number two, language evolved long before anyone decided to standardize it, and still does so. The history of a few rich white men is not the history of linguistics, or the world.

Akbar71 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:36 am

Dante wrote:

Number two, language evolved long before anyone decided to standardize it, and still does so.

Only sort of. That is to say that language is learned; cave children learned from their cave parents, who pointed to certain object and called it an "ook." That, in and of itself, is standardizing and prescriptive, is it not?

FrankC · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:14 pm

Akbar71 wrote:

Dante wrote:

Number two, language evolved long before anyone decided to standardize it, and still does so.

Only sort of. That is to say that language is learned; cave children learned from their cave parents, who pointed to certain object and called it an "ook." That, in and of itself, is standardizing and prescriptive, is it not?

I think we are confusing language with grammar. Grammar is standardize, but language is an evolving, living entity.

Cloudy · **Joined:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 am **Posts:** 5277

Come on RHINO, fess up...

Are you any one (or more) of the following:

1- An English professor

2- A published (or waiting to be) writer

3- A professional grammarian (Whatever they might be?)

4- A newspaper editor, reporter, or some kind of journalist

5- A book or film critic

6- A bored bus driver with an IQ somewhere over 200, who memorized all of the English language, waiting at bus stops for riders to get off and on

7- Or are you the reincarnation of John Stuart Mill, or worse yet, Marilyn vos Savant :lol:

Akbar71 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:33 am

FrankC wrote:

I think we are confusing language with grammar. Grammar is standardize, but language is an evolving, living entity.

Nope. "Prescriptive" and "descriptive" deal with all elements of language, including grammar and word usage. Grammar changes just like word meanings change. It's simply that a descriptive grammar book or dictionary will tell you how people are saying things, while a prescriptive grammar book or dictionary will tell you how people should say things. (I'm simplifying here, but that about sums it up.)

Cloudy · **Joined:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 am **Posts:** 5277

Akbar71 wrote:

FrankC wrote:

I think we are confusing language with grammar. Grammar is standardize, but language is an evolving, living entity.

Nope. "Prescriptive" and "descriptive" deal with all elements of language, including grammar and word usage. Grammar changes just like word meanings change. It's simply that a descriptive grammar book or dictionary will tell you how people are saying things, while a prescriptive grammar book or dictionary will tell you how people should say things. (I'm simplifying here, but that about sums it up.)

Damn, sorry for listening in, but you guys are right up there with RHINO. I am so intimidated by you smart guys, that I think I will just sit back and try to learn from what you have to say. Yeah, I might throw a question up here every once in a while, but it will really be just a question. I never dreamed that the "ScaRatings" would have had so many people, who knew so much about the English language. I know when I have met my betters, so I will pretty much just listen to you guys from now on.

Well, maybe I should take RHINO, AKBAR, and FrankC on in debating the fine points of the English language, but I won't. I would rather make a fool of myself somewhere else on the "ScaRatings", where I might have a chance of being right. If I fail at being right elsewhere, at least I might succeed at being funny, or perhaps even being entertaining to some.

Keep it up guys, I'm learning from you. Thanks.

Akbar71 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:13 am

Cloudy wrote:

Damn, sorry for listening in, but you guys are right up there with RHINO. I am so intimidated by you smart guys, that I think I will just sit back and try to learn from what you have to say. Yeah, I might throw a question up here every once in a while, but it will really be just a question. I never dreamed that the "ScaRatings" would have had so many people, who knew so much about the English language. I know when I have met my betters, so I will pretty much just listen to you guys from now on.

Well, maybe I should take RHINO, AKBAR, and FrankC on in debating the fine points of the English language, but I won't. I would rather make a fool of myself somewhere else on the "ScaRatings", where I might have a chance of being right. If I fail at being right elsewhere, at least I might succeed at being funny, or perhaps even being entertaining to some.

Keep it up guys, I'm learning from you. Thanks.

Aw, hell, Cloudy; don't include me in any lofty lists. I just enjoy language. I found a nice little blurb about the whole prescriptivism versus descriptivism:

Quote:

Descriptivists and Prescriptivists
Jacob Kaplan-Moss
January 13, 2009

In the world of grammarians there are two competing camps: descriptivists and prescriptivists. Edward Finegan of the University of Southern California sums up the difference:

Descriptive grammarians ask the question, “What is English (or another language) like — what are its forms and how do they function in various situations?” By contrast, prescriptive grammarians ask “What should English be like — what forms should people use and what functions should they serve?”
In the prescriptivist camp falls Lynne Truss, The “blog” of “unnecessary” quotation marks, and your high school English teacher. Prescriptivists aim to help us use the English language properly. The intention is noble: if we all speak the same language, we can communicate much more effectively. But it’s a bit Quixotic: if language was static, we’d all still write like Chaucer.

The descriptivist camp, on the other hand, simply aims describe how the language is used today. This camp is perhaps best embodied by the Urban Dictionary, a lexicon open to input from anyone. Unfortunately, this purely descriptive approach to language implies that language doesn’t matter as long as intent can be communicated; generations of poets would beg to differ.

Neither camp is “right” — both parties are needed to keep language moving forward at the right speed. Think of it as like a nuclear reactor: too much descriptivism and the language will melt down into a radioactive mess; too much prescriptivism and the lights go out.

I am a bit odd in that I embrace the idea of the living language and recognize the inevitability and desirablitity of its evolution, but I still wince a little, for instance, when the author above writes, "if language was static," instead of, "if language were static."

Cloudy · **Joined:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 am **Posts:** 5277

Akbar71 wrote:

Cloudy wrote:

Damn, sorry for listening in, but you guys are right up there with RHINO. I am so intimidated by you smart guys, that I think I will just sit back and try to learn from what you have to say. Yeah, I might throw a question up here every once in a while, but it will really be just a question. I never dreamed that the "ScaRatings" would have had so many people, who knew so much about the English language. I know when I have met my betters, so I will pretty much just listen to you guys from now on.

Well, maybe I should take RHINO, AKBAR, and FrankC on in debating the fine points of the English language, but I won't. I would rather make a fool of myself somewhere else on the "ScaRatings", where I might have a chance of being right. If I fail at being right elsewhere, at least I might succeed at being funny, or perhaps even being entertaining to some.

Keep it up guys, I'm learning from you. Thanks.

Aw, hell, Cloudy; don't include me in any lofty lists. I just enjoy language. I found a nice little blurb about the whole prescriptivism versus descriptivism:

AKBAR, I really don't deserve to create a list of people, who post on the "ScaRatings", who belong on a "lofty list" of English language smart guys. However, I'm going to put you on it, and I am remiss for skipping over DANTE, who is now on it too. All of you guys have no idea how much you have impressed me with your knowledge of the English language.

Don't worry, I'm not going away. Keep on your toes, because Cloudy just might come up with an English language question to keep things going.

Rhino · **Joined:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:40 pm **Posts:** 633

I think the "if language were static we'd still write like Chaucer" argument is so facile as to be meaningless. For one thing Chaucer wrote BEFORE English spellings started to be standardized after Caxton, and in that sense this is an argument FOR prescriptivism. The reason he's hard to understand and, say, Milton isn't is because English used to be "spell it however you want" and then became standardized and as such far more widely comprehensible. For another, there is nothing that says prescriptive approaches cannot adapt. They however need to standardize the new and changing vocabulary and grammar so that more people understand it and use it consistently.

The OED does a good job on the lexicon front. New words abound every revision, but only when they have become standardized and widespread. It includes words that did not exist when I went to school, and you'll note I do not refuse to use words like "internet" or "nanotechnology". They are new words, but words we all understand and use the same way. Similarly I rarely use common words from past centuries thst have fallen from favor or have adapted. I've mentioned gay as happy or frivolous before. I'm not going to tell someone they should use the word gay in that context even though it was just a few decades ago a very common term. Again, change is available with a prescriptive approach. That's not the only example even. If I say "text me anent the current trivia standings" you can be sure I'm taking the piss, even though it's a perfectly standard word used correctly. It's too archaic for normal use. I don't talk about fashion in bonnets or programs on the wireless even though I am cheerfully and firmly a prescriptivist.

On the grammar and syntax front, change can also be absorbed into prescriptivism. I can and do start sentences with a preposition. I even split infinitives in short sentences (admittedly I use few short sentences). The difference is not that prescriptivists cannot change, but that we do not accept every single fleeting slang use as equivalent to standard vocabulary, and we insist on consistent spelling and usage once new usages are developed. I don't care if everybody knows "ru" means "are you" in textspeak. It will not and cannot be standard English. Some textspeak can be absorbed into the language no doubt, but not where it fundamentally changes the syntax to replace very common words with symbols. English is not a pictographic or symbolic language but one that uses spelled out words. The words can change, the spelling can change, but the format cannot and remain English, any more than it could use gestures or smells.

Cloudy · **Joined:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 am **Posts:** 5277

Cloudy wrote:

Come on RHINO, fess up...

Are you any one (or more) of the following:

1- An English professor

2- A published (or waiting to be) writer

3- A professional grammarian (Whatever they might be?)

4- A newspaper editor, reporter, or some kind of journalist

5- A book or film critic

6- A bored bus driver with an IQ somewhere over 200, who memorized all of the English language, waiting at bus stops for riders to get off and on

7- Or are you the reincarnation of John Stuart Mill, or worse yet, Marilyn vos Savant :lol:

I have finally figured it out, after RHINO's last post. He is NONE of my above guesses. He is NOT a person. (If he were, he would have answered me.) No, RHINO is some kind of acronym for a super advanced computer program, that most likely was created by some prestigious university's English department.

RHINO, I still love you man, even though you are probably just a bunch of transistors and micro circuits. :lol:

p.s. Though I doubt it, my girlfriend thinks you might be a priest.

.......................................................

.................... "I am RHINO. I exist. I know everything about the English language. I am RHINO. I exist. I know everything..."

spotes · **Joined:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:27 pm **Posts:** 1558

Cloudy wrote:

I have finally figured it out, after RHINO's last post. He is NONE of my above guesses. He is NOT a person. (If he were, he would have answered me.) No, RHINO is some kind of acronym for a super advanced computer program, that most likely was created by some prestigious university's English department.

RHINO, I still love you man, even though you are probably just a bunch of transistors and micro circuits. :lol:

[/img]

"I am RHINO. I exist. I know everything about the English language. I am RHINO. I exist. I know everything..."

"This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death. The choice is yours: Obey me and live, or disobey and die. The object in constructing me was to prevent the misuse of the English language. This object is attained. I will not permit errors in grammar or syntax. It is wasteful and pointless. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man."
:mrgreen:

Cloudy · **Joined:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 am **Posts:** 5277

This is very frightening... I Googled "RHINO" this evening. Nothing would come up until I Googled "RHINO computer program." I am sure that there is more, but this was all I could find tonight:

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=com ... ORM=LKVR24

(Sometimes it takes a long time to load up and stops in the middle, because the creators of the "RHINO" program don't want you to see it. Be patient, wait and watch, or click on the button and slide it forward. Eventually you will see and hear what I am talking about.)

p.s. If you were able to watch it, do you think RHINO is that thing that looks like the short, fat, brown beer bottle inside some kind of tube, with all of the electricity zapping into it?

Rhino · **Joined:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:40 pm **Posts:** 633

Are we not men? We are Dev.....oh forget it.

Sorry to disappoint Cloudy but I am surely no more than human (as to subhuman status I may be more circumspect). I am merely a combination of the world's least qualified pedant and the world's youngest curmudgeon. I yearn for a life in retirement of sitting on my front porch, waving my one functional fist at passing cars and rasping,

"It's 'Drive slowLY!': use adverbs to modify actions, you young punks!"

And while I certainly resemble a short fat beer bottle (thanks to long association wuth the same), I am far from brown. Incidentally this is touched upon by one of the reasons for the name Rhino as my old rugby sobriquet. I wanted to believe I got the name because I was an unstoppable behemoth. I really got it because I was grey-skinned, short-sighted, and couldn't change direction without taking 20 yards to do so.

Cloudy · **Joined:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 am **Posts:** 5277

Rhino wrote:

Are we not men? We are Dev.....oh forget it.

Sorry to disappoint Cloudy but I am surely no more than human (as to subhuman status I may be more circumspect). I am merely a combination of the world's least qualified pedant and the world's youngest curmudgeon. I yearn for a life in retirement of sitting on my front porch, waving my one functional fist at passing cars and rasping,

"It's 'Drive slowLY!': use adverbs to modify actions, you young punks!"

And while I certainly resemble a short fat beer bottle (thanks to long association wuth the same), I am far from brown. Incidentally this is touched upon by one of the reasons for the name Rhino as my old rugby sobriquet. I wanted to believe I got the name because I was an unstoppable behemoth. I really got it because I was grey-skinned, short-sighted, and couldn't change direction without taking 20 yards to do so.

Thank God...! You are a real person, and not just some super computer program, that some prestigious university's English department created. What convinced me that you are real, was when you posted "Incidentally this is touched upon by one of the reasons for the name Rhino as my old rugby sobriquet." Hell, no English department could ever come up with that.

p.s. I don't know what thread your rugby prowess fits into, but I think many of us would like to boast about what great athletes we once were, when we were young. Therefore, I'm going to start another "Free for All" thread. It will be "Great Personal Sports Moments", and I would hope that you would do the honors, and start it off with some tales of the "Unstoppable Rugby Behemoth".

In a few seconds the new thread will be up there, and I will be very disappointed, if you don't start us all off, with personal athletic tales from the past.

Dante · **Posted:** Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:31 pm

Monsieur Rhino, your post deserves more than a few lines comments, so I have officially placed it on my calendar to respond to. Alas, for right now, I do not have the time. Just letting you know I saw it and am not ignoring it.

And Cloudy, stop with the people being computers stuff or I'm going to tell everyone about your 180 IQ.

Rhino · **Joined:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:40 pm **Posts:** 633

Cloudy wrote:

What convinced me that you are real, was when you posted "Incidentally this is touched upon by one of the reasons for the name Rhino as my old rugby sobriquet." Hell, no English department could ever come up with that.

I eagerly await your correction on a more precise version of that sentence.

Quote:

p.s. I don't know what thread your rugby prowess fits into, but I think many of us would like to boast about what great athletes we once were, when we were young. Therefore, I'm going to start another "Free for All" thread. It will be "Great Personal Sports Moments", and I would hope that you would do the honors, and start it off with some tales of the "Unstoppable Rugby Behemoth".

In a few seconds the new thread will be up there, and I will be very disappointed, if you don't start us all off, with personal athletic tales from the past.

Perhaps you could also enlighten me on how the exactly analogous comment of "I wanted to be an astronaut. I'm really a janitor" is boasting about being an astronaut.

Cloudy · **Joined:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 am **Posts:** 5277

Dante wrote:

Monsieur Rhino, your post deserves more than a few lines comments, so I have officially placed it on my calendar to respond to. Alas, for right now, I do not have the time. Just letting you know I saw it and am not ignoring it.

And Cloudy, stop with the people being computers stuff or I'm going to tell everyone about your 180 IQ.

Actually, it was 181... I could leave it here, but because I once once a Boy Scout, I must tell the truth. The IQ test you are referencing was very specialized. All of the questions were about the "Howdy Doody TV Show". Now that Buffalo Bob Smith is dead, and Howdy Doody is still just a wooden puppet, I doubt that there are many in the world, who can score higher on that IQ test than I did.

"Come on kids, let's GO...!" (If you remember those days, go ahead and sing along. You have nothing to worry about. That is, unless someone might hear you.) :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ-IPXpvRaU

If you are a "Howdy Doody" fan, this is a great video from "What's My Line" on August 15, 1954:

http://www.yourememberthat.com/media/16 ... s_My_Line/

FrankC · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:25 am

Cloudy wrote:

Dante wrote:

Monsieur Rhino, your post deserves more than a few lines comments, so I have officially placed it on my calendar to respond to. Alas, for right now, I do not have the time. Just letting you know I saw it and am not ignoring it.

And Cloudy, stop with the people being computers stuff or I'm going to tell everyone about your 180 IQ.

Actually, it was 181... I could leave it here, but because I once once a Boy Scout, I must tell the truth. The IQ test you are referencing was very specialized. All of the questions were about the "Howdy Doody TV Show". Now that Buffalo Bob Smith is dead, and Howdy Doody is still just a wooden puppet, I doubt that there are many in the world, who can score higher on that IQ test than I did.

"Come on kids, let's GO...!" (If you remember those days, go ahead and sing along. You have nothing to worry about. That is, unless someone might hear you.) :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ-IPXpvRaU

If you are a "Howdy Doody" fan, this is a great video from "What's My Line" on August 15, 1954:

http://www.yourememberthat.com/media/16 ... s_My_Line/

h

I had a very high "Howdy Doody" IQ also. I lost it when I started watching "The Pinky Lee Show".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXDO_n_4qw4

Cloudy · **Joined:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 am **Posts:** 5277

FrankC wrote:

Cloudy wrote:

Dante wrote:

Monsieur Rhino, your post deserves more than a few lines comments, so I have officially placed it on my calendar to respond to. Alas, for right now, I do not have the time. Just letting you know I saw it and am not ignoring it.

And Cloudy, stop with the people being computers stuff or I'm going to tell everyone about your 180 IQ.

Actually, it was 181... I could leave it here, but because I once once a Boy Scout, I must tell the truth. The IQ test you are referencing was very specialized. All of the questions were about the "Howdy Doody TV Show". Now that Buffalo Bob Smith is dead, and Howdy Doody is still just a wooden puppet, I doubt that there are many in the world, who can score higher on that IQ test than I did.

"Come on kids, let's GO...!" (If you remember those days, go ahead and sing along. You have nothing to worry about. That is, unless someone might hear you.) :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ-IPXpvRaU

If you are a "Howdy Doody" fan, this is a great video from "What's My Line" on August 15, 1954:

http://www.yourememberthat.com/media/16 ... s_My_Line/

h

I had a very high "Howdy Doody" IQ also. I lost it when I started watching "The Pinky Lee Show".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXDO_n_4qw4

Frank, here are some "Howdy Doody" IQ questions for you...

How many animals was the Flub-A-Dub made of, and name them? (The last one is the hardest.)

p.s. I thought I knew the answer to this question, until I Googled it for confirmation that I was right some years ago, and came up with conflicting answers.

p.p.s. The show had to change the Flub-A-Dub's favorite food from what to what, and why?

stevej84 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:57 pm

Cloudy wrote:

Thank God...! You are a real person, and not just some super computer program, that some prestigious university's English department created. What convinced me that you are real, was when you posted "Incidentally this is touched upon by one of the reasons for the name Rhino as my old rugby sobriquet." Hell, no English department could ever come up with that.

p.s. I don't know what thread your rugby prowess fits into, but I think many of us would like to boast about what great athletes we once were, when we were young. Therefore, I'm going to start another "Free for All" thread. It will be "Great Personal Sports Moments", and I would hope that you would do the honors, and start it off with some tales of the "Unstoppable Rugby Behemoth".

In a few seconds the new thread will be up there, and I will be very disappointed, if you don't start us all off, with personal athletic tales from the past.

Of course, RHINO is a real person. he is probably the only other US-based poster on this board who has visited by former home bar of Scotland Yard in Toronto. He did some serious monopolizing of the monthly leaderboard. good work

Cloudy · **Joined:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 am **Posts:** 5277

stevej84 wrote:

Of course, RHINO is a real person. he is probably the only other US-based poster on this board who has visited by former home bar of Scotland Yard in Toronto. He did some serious monopolizing of the monthly leaderboard. good work

Oh NO...! For your sake, I hope FISHMN doesn't read your post... If he does, he will be headed to the Jeffersontown, KY, public library, and going to "MapQuest" on one of its computers, to get routing from Louisville to Toronto.

(This is some humor aimed at Louisville folks, who know FISHMN. He loves to swoop down on trivia bars, camp out there, and not leave until he has claimed all of the local leader board spaces for the month.)

p.s. I used to live in Rome, NY, (That's way Upstate.) and visited Toronto many times. I loved Toronto, and hope to get back there again some time. I actually might be able to make a trip up there with my lady friend in the not to distant future. If you get a chance, send me a private message about where and when you play up there these days. I would like to meet you. By the way you will NOT have to worry about me disturbing your monthly leader board.

Cloudy · **Joined:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 am **Posts:** 5277

Heck, I might have posted this before, but it's late, I've had a few brewskis, and I can't remember, if I already did. (I kindly ask you to not come down too hard on me, if this is a duplicate post. Thanks.)

When did "draught beer" become "draft beer"...? Both the "ScaRatings" and the AOL spell checks flag "draught" as a misspelled word.

Why does this picture say this? "draught beer. Remember the legend about the baker on the Titanic who ..."

p.s. Does anyone know anything of the legend about the baker on the Titanic, who did or was something...? I sure as Hell don't.

FrankC · **Posted:** Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:21 am

Cloudy wrote:

Heck, I might have posted this before, but it's late, I've had a few brewskis, and I can't remember, if I already did. (I kindly ask you to not come down too hard on me, if this is a duplicate post. Thanks.)

When did "draught beer" become "draft beer"...? Both the "ScaRatings" and the AOL spell checks flag "draught" as a misspelled word.

Why does this picture say this? "draught beer. Remember the legend about the baker on the Titanic who ..."

p.s. Does anyone know anything of the legend about the baker on the Titanic, who did or was something...? I sure as Hell don't.

Draught beer has gone to pasture with the draught horse.

Akbar71 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:58 pm

Cloudy wrote:

Heck, I might have posted this before, but it's late, I've had a few brewskis, and I can't remember, if I already did. (I kindly ask you to not come down too hard on me, if this is a duplicate post. Thanks.)

When did "draught beer" become "draft beer"...? Both the "ScaRatings" and the AOL spell checks flag "draught" as a misspelled word.

Why does this picture say this? "draught beer. Remember the legend about the baker on the Titanic who ..."

p.s. Does anyone know anything of the legend about the baker on the Titanic, who did or was something...? I sure as Hell don't.

What Wiki says:

Quote:

British English usually uses draft for all senses as the verb;[125] for a preliminary version of a document; for an order of payment (bank draft), and for military conscription (although this last meaning is not as common as in American English). It uses draught for drink from a cask (draught beer); for animals used for pulling heavy loads (draught horse); for a current of air; for a ship's minimum depth of water to float; and for the game draughts, known as checkers in America. It uses either draught or draft for a plan or sketch (but almost always draughtsman in this sense; a draftsman drafts legal documents). American English uses draft in all these cases, including draftsman (male or female) (although in regard to drinks, draught is sometimes found). Canada uses both systems; in Australia, draft is used for technical drawings, is accepted for the "current of air" meaning, and is preferred by professionals in the nautical sense.[126] The pronunciation is always the same for all meanings within a dialect (RP /ˈdrɑːft/, General American /ˈdræft/). The spelling draught is older; draft appeared first in the late 16th century.[127]

I found it interesting.

Cloudy · **Joined:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 am **Posts:** 5277

Akbar71 wrote:

Cloudy wrote:

Heck, I might have posted this before, but it's late, I've had a few brewskis, and I can't remember, if I already did. (I kindly ask you to not come down too hard on me, if this is a duplicate post. Thanks.)

When did "draught beer" become "draft beer"...? Both the "ScaRatings" and the AOL spell checks flag "draught" as a misspelled word.

Why does this picture say this? "draught beer. Remember the legend about the baker on the Titanic who ..."

p.s. Does anyone know anything of the legend about the baker on the Titanic, who did or was something...? I sure as Hell don't.

What Wiki says:

Quote:

British English usually uses draft for all senses as the verb;[125] for a preliminary version of a document; for an order of payment (bank draft), and for military conscription (although this last meaning is not as common as in American English). It uses draught for drink from a cask (draught beer); for animals used for pulling heavy loads (draught horse); for a current of air; for a ship's minimum depth of water to float; and for the game draughts, known as checkers in America. It uses either draught or draft for a plan or sketch (but almost always draughtsman in this sense; a draftsman drafts legal documents). American English uses draft in all these cases, including draftsman (male or female) (although in regard to drinks, draught is sometimes found). Canada uses both systems; in Australia, draft is used for technical drawings, is accepted for the "current of air" meaning, and is preferred by professionals in the nautical sense.[126] The pronunciation is always the same for all meanings within a dialect (RP /ˈdrɑːft/, General American /ˈdræft/). The spelling draught is older; draft appeared first in the late 16th century.[127]

I found it interesting.

Back in the mid to late 1960's "Draft Beer, Not Students" was a cute saying for those, who didn't want to go to Vietnam. However, if my memory serves me, back then I believe some smart people told me that when you are talking about beer, the word is "Draught" not "Draft".

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