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 Post subject: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:08 pm 
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Whether you are a Republican or a Democrat, or if you view yourself as conservative or liberal, if you love children, you MUST see the movie documentary, "Waiting for Superman".

Image .......... Image

This is a movie that you need to see. Not only will it bring tears to your eyes as you see young children's hopes and dreams dashed by our education system, it will also make you wonder where our education system is leading the United States.

Here's a brief clip from the movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKTfaro96dg

Once again, if you have not seen this movie, YOU MUST, if you care about kids, and the future. This movie will tell you things that most likely you were never aware of. Promise me that you will spend a couple bucks and watch it.

I am looking forward to your comments.

p.s. This movie was NOT made by right wing, conservative, Republican, redneck Neanderthals. Just the opposite.

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Last edited by Cloudy on Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:37 am 
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Cloudy wrote:
Whether you are a Republican or a Democrat, or if you view yourself as conservative or liberal, if you love children, you MUST see the movie documentary, "Waiting for Superman".

Image .......... Image

This is a movie that you need to see. Not only will it bring tears to your eyes as you see young children's hopes and dreams dashed by our educational system, it will also make you wonder where our educational system is leading the United States.

Here's a brief clip from the movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKTfaro96dg

Once again, if you have not seen this movie, YOU MUST, if you care about kids, and the future. This movie will tell you things that most likely you were never aware of. Promise me that you will spend a couple bucks and watch it.

I am looking forward to your comments.

p.s. This movie was NOT made by right wing, conservative, Republican, redneck Neanderthals. Just the opposite.



One other thing that it was not...nominated for a documentary Oscar.
One of the most moving documentaries in the last 20 years, and not even a nod from the academy. I have this funny feeling that if it were about kids from some third world country, they would have been tripping all over themselves in getting it on the ballot. But I could be wrong.

Speaking only for myself, I have realized that the public educational system was a joke since 8/25/1980.
After 6 years at a secular private school, that was the date of my introduction to public education. That was also the date that I received my 7th grade English and math textbooks. They were the exact same text books that I had already used in the FOURTH grade.
Imagine my lack of surprise the following year when I also got my good ol' fifth grade books upon my return.
In retrospect, I guess that was also my introduction to the ages old premise of "you get what you pay for".
Public school, in Indianapolis at least, was ridiculous. It seems that it has actually gotten worse. Hard to fathom...


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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:56 am 
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spotes wrote:
Cloudy wrote:
Whether you are a Republican or a Democrat, or if you view yourself as conservative or liberal, if you love children, you MUST see the movie documentary, "Waiting for Superman".

Image .......... Image

This is a movie that you need to see. Not only will it bring tears to your eyes as you see young children's hopes and dreams dashed by our educational system, it will also make you wonder where our educational system is leading the United States.

Here's a brief clip from the movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKTfaro96dg

Once again, if you have not seen this movie, YOU MUST, if you care about kids, and the future. This movie will tell you things that most likely you were never aware of. Promise me that you will spend a couple bucks and watch it.

I am looking forward to your comments.

p.s. This movie was NOT made by right wing, conservative, Republican, redneck Neanderthals. Just the opposite.



One other thing that it was not...nominated for a documentary Oscar.
One of the most moving documentaries in the last 20 years, and not even a nod from the academy. I have this funny feeling that if it were about kids from some third world country, they would have been tripping all over themselves in getting it on the ballot. But I could be wrong.

Speaking only for myself, I have realized that the public educational system was a joke since 8/25/1980.
After 6 years at a secular private school, that was the date of my introduction to public education. That was also the date that I received my 7th grade English and math textbooks. They were the exact same text books that I had already used in the FOURTH grade.
Imagine my lack of surprise the following year when I also got my good ol' fifth grade books upon my return.
In retrospect, I guess that was also my introduction to the ages old premise of "you get what you pay for".
Public school, in Indianapolis at least, was ridiculous. It seems that it has actually gotten worse. Hard to fathom...


The public school system has to suck.....it employs me.


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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:11 am 
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There is another film on the same subject called two million minutes.

http://www.2mminutes.com/about.asp


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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:19 pm 
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Image ............... Image

Here's a brief video clip of Katie Couric talking about "Waiting for Superman":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwfZ4p31 ... re=related

I have a problem when Katie suggests that inadequate funding of our edcation system might be a factor.

It's really important that you check these graphs out: :roll:

http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/1 ... chart.html

One of my brothers actually went to a one-room school house for a while, which was heated by a wood stove. It was probably built in the late 1800's. It had electricity and running water, but that's about as high tech as it got. I believe every one of the kids in that little school in Stokes, NY, graduated from high school, and most went on to college. My brother is now finishing his PhD. I would guess that it probably cost less than $10,000 a year to run that school (Most likely a lot less.), which is about what we are spending per student today. There were about 25 kids in the school, and if my my estimates are right, that would be about $400 per kid back then. So why doesn't $10,000 a year get better results? I think the answer is the teacher, and how and what she/he is allowed to teach. Yep, Mrs. Herter made her students learn, and broke quite a few rulers while doing it. :lol:

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 Post subject: There was a time...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:55 pm 
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There was a time, when one room schoolhouses turned out kids, who went on to accomplish amazing things.

Image

I'm not suggesting that we should return to one room schoolhouses, just the educational approach and philosophy that once really taught kids things.

It doesn't take billions of more dollars to improve our sadly failing education system. It must come from a change to our educational approach and philosophy, which will cost nothing.

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 Post subject: Teacher's unions...?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:19 am 
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Does anyone have any thoughts, ideas, or comments on how you feel the growth of teacher's unions have effected education in the United States...?

Image

Maybe this will get some of you involved.

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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:51 am 
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The comparisons they make in this movie are full of crap. You cannot compare the American school system with foreign school systems. Heck, you can't compare the public school system with private schools in the U.S. either. In the American public school system, no student is turned away. No matter the family background, the ability to pay, or the lack of citizenship. You can't say the same for any other schools in the world.

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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:42 pm 
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BGTUNA wrote:
The comparisons they make in this movie are full of crap. You cannot compare the American school system with foreign school systems. Heck, you can't compare the public school system with private schools in the U.S. either. In the American public school system, no student is turned away. No matter the family background, the ability to pay, or the lack of citizenship. You can't say the same for any other schools in the world.


Gotta agree with ya.

Well, maybe not 100%, but I think you make a good point. Our public schools do have to take in everyone, who walks through the door, and private schools can be selective. However, our public school system has taken in everyone for a very long time, and in years gone by that didn't seem to be a problem. I think the problem lies more with the present education system, than it does with the kids, who walk through the door.

The one room schoolhouse that my brother went to in 1957 was made up mostly of country kids, who's parents had little money and little education. I went to school in downtown Rome, NY, a small factory town in Upstate New York. I would estimate that somewhere around 75% of my classmates were second or third generation kids, who came from Italian and Polish immigrant families. Most of their parents worked in the factories, and also had little money and little education. However, the education system didn't let those kids down. They did extremely well. They made the honor roll, Honor Society, won academic scholarships, and went on to college.

I don't think it is as important as to who walks through the schoolhouse door, as it is what happens to them once they're inside.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Gotta show everyone the multi-million dollar elementary school in Rome, NY, that I and a bunch of Italian and Polish kids went to for 5th grade back in 1957.

Image

.............................. Dewitt Clinton Elementary

.................... (Damn, it kinda looks like a warehouse.)

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Last edited by Cloudy on Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Who thinks the problem is that we are not spending enough...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:29 pm 
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Who thinks the problem is that we are not spending enough money on education? Who thinks it might be something else?

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 Post subject: Silence is consent...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:26 pm 
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Silence is consent, therefore I must assume that everyone agrees with me that the teachers' unions, and what they have done to our education system is the main cause of the dismal state that our public education system finds itself in today.

p.s. Got a feeling that nobody will challenge this.

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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:45 pm 
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cards wrote:
There is another film on the same subject called two million minutes.

http://www.2mminutes.com/about.asp


Hey Cards, am I allowed to add this on Netflix, or will that cause the universe to explode? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Silence is consent...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:26 am 
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Cloudy wrote:
Silence is consent, therefore I must assume that everyone agrees with me that the teachers' unions, and what they have done to our education system is the main cause of the dismal state that our public education system finds itself in today.

p.s. Got a feeling that nobody will challenge this.

While I don't love the teachers' unions, I disagree wholeheartedly with your assertion. I have simply grown weary of arguing similar points in similar threads. Silence doesn't always mean consent. Sometimes it means that others have realize that your mind is made up and there's nothing they can say to make you question it. No offense intended here; just explaining my previous silence.


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 Post subject: Re: Silence is consent...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:23 am 
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Akbar71 wrote:
Cloudy wrote:
Silence is consent, therefore I must assume that everyone agrees with me that the teachers' unions, and what they have done to our education system is the main cause of the dismal state that our public education system finds itself in today.

p.s. Got a feeling that nobody will challenge this.

While I don't love the teachers' unions, I disagree wholeheartedly with your assertion. I have simply grown weary of arguing similar points in similar threads. Silence doesn't always mean consent. Sometimes it means that others have realize that your mind is made up and there's nothing they can say to make you question it. No offense intended here; just explaining my previous silence.


I wish I had learned that much, much earlier in life. I'd have more hair left.


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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:03 am 
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Cloudy wrote:
BGTUNA wrote:
The comparisons they make in this movie are full of crap. You cannot compare the American school system with foreign school systems. Heck, you can't compare the public school system with private schools in the U.S. either. In the American public school system, no student is turned away. No matter the family background, the ability to pay, or the lack of citizenship. You can't say the same for any other schools in the world.


Gotta agree with ya.

Well, maybe not 100%, but I think you make a good point. Our public schools do have to take in everyone, who walks through the door, and private schools can be selective. However, our public school system has taken in everyone for a very long time, and in years gone by that didn't seem to be a problem. I think the problem lies more with the present education system, than it does with the kids, who walk through the door.

The one room schoolhouse that my brother went to in 1957 was made up mostly of country kids, who's parents had little money and little education. I went to school in downtown Rome, NY, a small factory town in Upstate New York. I would estimate that somewhere around 75% of my classmates were second or third generation kids, who came from Italian and Polish immigrant families. Most of their parents worked in the factories, and also had little money and little education. However, the education system didn't let those kids down. They did extremely well. They made the honor roll, Honor Society, won academic scholarships, and went on to college.

I don't think it is as important as to who walks through the schoolhouse door, as it is what happens to them once they're inside.


Cloudy, comparing schools of today with schools from the 50s is like comparing cars from the same time periods. It can't be done. Your parents and parents then knew that the only way that their kids could avoid the factories was by getting a good education and they supported the schools. Today's parents don't support the schools in the same way. The wealthy classes believe they are better than teachers, the kids in the inner city schools are distracted by guns and gangs. The recent immigrants in past generations learned the language, today, not so much. Many of today's kids look as being called a "slacker" as a badge of honor. They know that mommy and daddy will take care of them.

I bet you wouldn't last 2 weeks in a classroom. I'm sure there is a Tea Party looking for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Silence is consent...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:42 am 
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Cloudy wrote:
Silence is consent, therefore I must assume that everyone agrees with me that the teachers' unions, and what they have done to our education system is the main cause of the dismal state that our public education system finds itself in today.

p.s. Got a feeling that nobody will challenge this.



Teachers' unions have certainly done a number on state and local budgets, but are in only a tiny way (resisting longer hours and years) responsible for the legion issues in American education. The list there would prominently feature:

Psycho-theocratic loons who have hobbled science education by insisting that fairy tales get equal billing, and that little Johnny and Jane should not understand the basics of human anatomy until they are 18.

Well-meaning but faddish administrators who think that "new, holistic, user-friendly" methods such as new math and word problems are better than the ways everybody has learned math for many centuries - by being told how to do sums, then doing lots of them, then moving on to harder ones. Repeat.

Touchy-feely "nobody should feel bad" sissiness that has caused genius kids to get bored, uninterested and rebel, and dumb kids to get lost, frustrated and rebel, because both are forced to go through subject matter at the pace of average kids. Not everyone is equal (a truth that is accepted with perfect equanimity on the playing fields from even pre-school years, but rejected with outrage in the classroom even in high school). Deal with it, and deal with them separately.

A complete lack of shared discipline and authority that makes parents sue if someone so much as corrects their kids, let alone upbraids them or god forbid disciplines them. You don't need to whip a kid raw to instill respect for the authority of teachers and other leaders, but you have to let those authority figures do more than speak to them in a soft pleasant voice.

Probably more than anything else, a rampant anti-intellectualism in US society unequalled in the developed world. No other nation so despises and demonizes academic capability, from childhood bullying and terminology like "nerds" and "geeks" to the over-glorification of and investment in school athletics (since when did high school debate, math competitions or trivia bowls get reported in the paper, shown on TV or have fancy facilities built?) And all of us support these biases with endless talk of things like "he's only book-smart" - as if there's any other kind; being able to fix a car, cook a meal or pick up girls are certainly useful skills, but are not measures of intellect. Even at the pinnacle of their success we talk about them as "eggheads in ivory towers" and proudly claim to be more "streetwise" and to live in "the real world", simply because we understand deep down that we lack the intellect to understand the world, and its strrets, as much as academic experts do. This is the really big issue. Korean and Taiwanese and Indian students are not kicking US academic ass up and down because they are inherently more intelligent, but because they are not worn down and demoralized and held back by being told all their life that it is weak, weird, socially unacceptable and even offensive to BE more intelligent than the norm.

If we celebrated academic success rather than loathed it, we'd get more of it. How much teachers get paid and how much time they get off is pretty meaningless compared to that.

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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:44 am 
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BGTUNA wrote:
Cloudy, comparing schools of today with schools from the 50s is like comparing cars from the same time periods. It can't be done. Your parents and parents then knew that the only way that their kids could avoid the factories was by getting a good education and they supported the schools. Today's parents don't support the schools in the same way. The wealthy classes believe they are better than teachers, the kids in the inner city schools are distracted by guns and gangs. The recent immigrants in past generations learned the language, today, not so much. Many of today's kids look as being called a "slacker" as a badge of honor. They know that mommy and daddy will take care of them.

I bet you wouldn't last 2 weeks in a classroom. I'm sure there is a Tea Party looking for you.


You should probably make a distinction between public and private schools.


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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:23 pm 
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Dante wrote:
cards wrote:
There is another film on the same subject called two million minutes.

http://www.2mminutes.com/about.asp


Hey Cards, am I allowed to add this on Netflix, or will that cause the universe to explode? ;)


Laugh now.....


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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:49 pm 
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cards wrote:
Dante wrote:
cards wrote:
There is another film on the same subject called two million minutes.

http://www.2mminutes.com/about.asp


Hey Cards, am I allowed to add this on Netflix, or will that cause the universe to explode? ;)


Laugh now.....


Is "Laugh now" a movie on Netflix, too?????? :) :) :)


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 Post subject: Re: "Waiting for Superman"...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:42 pm 
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Dante wrote:
You should probably make a distinction between public and private schools.


Your are probably right Dante, although my only experience with private schools is the fact that a bunch of my buddies went to Catholic schools, and crossing a nun was much different from crossing a different kind of private school teacher or public school teacher.

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 Post subject: Just trying to wake people up...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:46 pm 
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Akbar71 wrote:
Cloudy wrote:
Silence is consent, therefore I must assume that everyone agrees with me that the teachers' unions, and what they have done to our education system is the main cause of the dismal state that our public education system finds itself in today.

p.s. Got a feeling that nobody will challenge this.

While I don't love the teachers' unions, I disagree wholeheartedly with your assertion. I have simply grown weary of arguing similar points in similar threads. Silence doesn't always mean consent. Sometimes it means that others have realize that your mind is made up and there's nothing they can say to make you question it. No offense intended here; just explaining my previous silence.


The "silence is consent" comment was only an attempt to wake people up. (Looks like it might have worked.) :D Of course, I really know that silence doesn't mean consent.

Yep, my mind is made up at the moment. That is based on what I have, heard, read, and experienced. However, that doesn't mean that it can't be changed, and I haven't heard your thoughts yet.

Heck, I've made a bunch of "assertions" on this thread, which ones do you disagree with?

Here are some frightening statistics:

"The national graduation rate for the class of 1998 was 71%. For white students the rate was 78%, while it was 56% for African-American students and 54% for Latino students."

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_baeo.htm

(I know this study was done a while back, but I think more recent studies may be more frightening.)

It sure looks like we have a problem here. What do you think may be causing it?

p.s. You may have already told me, but I can't remember if you have seen "Waiting for Superman" yet.

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Last edited by Cloudy on Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Just trying to wake people up...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:51 pm 
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Cloudy wrote:
Yep, my mind is made up at the moment. That is based on what I have, heard, read, and experienced. However, that doesn't mean that it can't be changed, and I haven't heard your thoughts yet.


Rhino's comments upthread sum up my own and are far better written than I could have done. I hope you consider them.


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 Post subject: This time I agree with you completely...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:11 am 
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BGTUNA wrote:
Cloudy wrote:
BGTUNA wrote:
The comparisons they make in this movie are full of crap. You cannot compare the American school system with foreign school systems. Heck, you can't compare the public school system with private schools in the U.S. either. In the American public school system, no student is turned away. No matter the family background, the ability to pay, or the lack of citizenship. You can't say the same for any other schools in the world.


Gotta agree with ya.

Well, maybe not 100%, but I think you make a good point. Our public schools do have to take in everyone, who walks through the door, and private schools can be selective. However, our public school system has taken in everyone for a very long time, and in years gone by that didn't seem to be a problem. I think the problem lies more with the present education system, than it does with the kids, who walk through the door.

The one room schoolhouse that my brother went to in 1957 was made up mostly of country kids, who's parents had little money and little education. I went to school in downtown Rome, NY, a small factory town in Upstate New York. I would estimate that somewhere around 75% of my classmates were second or third generation kids, who came from Italian and Polish immigrant families. Most of their parents worked in the factories, and also had little money and little education. However, the education system didn't let those kids down. They did extremely well. They made the honor roll, Honor Society, won academic scholarships, and went on to college.

I don't think it is as important as to who walks through the schoolhouse door, as it is what happens to them once they're inside.


Cloudy, comparing schools of today with schools from the 50s is like comparing cars from the same time periods. It can't be done. Your parents and parents then knew that the only way that their kids could avoid the factories was by getting a good education and they supported the schools. Today's parents don't support the schools in the same way. The wealthy classes believe they are better than teachers, the kids in the inner city schools are distracted by guns and gangs. The recent immigrants in past generations learned the language, today, not so much. Many of today's kids look as being called a "slacker" as a badge of honor. They know that mommy and daddy will take care of them.

I bet you wouldn't last 2 weeks in a classroom. I'm sure there is a Tea Party looking for you.


This time I agree with you completely. :D Got any ideas how this problem can be fixed?

p.s. I'm pretty conservative on a lot of issues. (Not all of them.) However, I am NOT a Tea Party person, by any stretch of the imagination. Though I agree with much of what the Tea Party thinks, I believe many of its members are too rigid, and unable that realize that taking extreme positions without considering that compromise on some issues is necessary to attain more important goals. Many Tea Party members foolishly will not accept a Republican candidate, no matter how likely it is that he/she can beat Obama, unless they agree with 100% of that candidate's positions. This is utter political stupidity.

p.s. Out of curiosity, have you seen "Waiting for Superman" yet?

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Last edited by Cloudy on Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Excelent points...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:32 am 
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Rhino wrote:
Cloudy wrote:
Silence is consent, therefore I must assume that everyone agrees with me that the teachers' unions, and what they have done to our education system is the main cause of the dismal state that our public education system finds itself in today.

p.s. Got a feeling that nobody will challenge this.



Teachers' unions have certainly done a number on state and local budgets, but are in only a tiny way (resisting longer hours and years) responsible for the legion issues in American education. The list there would prominently feature:

Psycho-theocratic loons who have hobbled science education by insisting that fairy tales get equal billing, and that little Johnny and Jane should not understand the basics of human anatomy until they are 18.

Well-meaning but faddish administrators who think that "new, holistic, user-friendly" methods such as new math and word problems are better than the ways everybody has learned math for many centuries - by being told how to do sums, then doing lots of them, then moving on to harder ones. Repeat.

Touchy-feely "nobody should feel bad" sissiness that has caused genius kids to get bored, uninterested and rebel, and dumb kids to get lost, frustrated and rebel, because both are forced to go through subject matter at the pace of average kids. Not everyone is equal (a truth that is accepted with perfect equanimity on the playing fields from even pre-school years, but rejected with outrage in the classroom even in high school). Deal with it, and deal with them separately.

A complete lack of shared discipline and authority that makes parents sue if someone so much as corrects their kids, let alone upbraids them or god forbid disciplines them. You don't need to whip a kid raw to instill respect for the authority of teachers and other leaders, but you have to let those authority figures do more than speak to them in a soft pleasant voice.

Probably more than anything else, a rampant anti-intellectualism in US society unequalled in the developed world. No other nation so despises and demonizes academic capability, from childhood bullying and terminology like "nerds" and "geeks" to the over-glorification of and investment in school athletics (since when did high school debate, math competitions or trivia bowls get reported in the paper, shown on TV or have fancy facilities built?) And all of us support these biases with endless talk of things like "he's only book-smart" - as if there's any other kind; being able to fix a car, cook a meal or pick up girls are certainly useful skills, but are not measures of intellect. Even at the pinnacle of their success we talk about them as "eggheads in ivory towers" and proudly claim to be more "streetwise" and to live in "the real world", simply because we understand deep down that we lack the intellect to understand the world, and its strrets, as much as academic experts do. This is the really big issue. Korean and Taiwanese and Indian students are not kicking US academic ass up and down because they are inherently more intelligent, but because they are not worn down and demoralized and held back by being told all their life that it is weak, weird, socially unacceptable and even offensive to BE more intelligent than the norm.

If we celebrated academic success rather than loathed it, we'd get more of it. How much teachers get paid and how much time they get off is pretty meaningless compared to that.


Excellent points, and I think that I agree with what you have to say. Pretend that President Obama has just appointed you head of the Department of Education. What would you do to correct all of this bullshit that has brought the education system in the United States so low from where it used to be?

p.s. Have you seen "Waiting for Superman" yet?

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 Post subject: Re: Excelent points...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:40 am 
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Lord or Lady Postsalot

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:40 pm
Posts: 633
Cloudy wrote:
Rhino wrote:
Cloudy wrote:
Silence is consent, therefore I must assume that everyone agrees with me that the teachers' unions, and what they have done to our education system is the main cause of the dismal state that our public education system finds itself in today.

p.s. Got a feeling that nobody will challenge this.



Teachers' unions have certainly done a number on state and local budgets, but are in only a tiny way (resisting longer hours and years) responsible for the legion issues in American education. The list there would prominently feature:

Psycho-theocratic loons who have hobbled science education by insisting that fairy tales get equal billing, and that little Johnny and Jane should not understand the basics of human anatomy until they are 18.

Well-meaning but faddish administrators who think that "new, holistic, user-friendly" methods such as new math and word problems are better than the ways everybody has learned math for many centuries - by being told how to do sums, then doing lots of them, then moving on to harder ones. Repeat.

Touchy-feely "nobody should feel bad" sissiness that has caused genius kids to get bored, uninterested and rebel, and dumb kids to get lost, frustrated and rebel, because both are forced to go through subject matter at the pace of average kids. Not everyone is equal (a truth that is accepted with perfect equanimity on the playing fields from even pre-school years, but rejected with outrage in the classroom even in high school). Deal with it, and deal with them separately.

A complete lack of shared discipline and authority that makes parents sue if someone so much as corrects their kids, let alone upbraids them or god forbid disciplines them. You don't need to whip a kid raw to instill respect for the authority of teachers and other leaders, but you have to let those authority figures do more than speak to them in a soft pleasant voice.

Probably more than anything else, a rampant anti-intellectualism in US society unequalled in the developed world. No other nation so despises and demonizes academic capability, from childhood bullying and terminology like "nerds" and "geeks" to the over-glorification of and investment in school athletics (since when did high school debate, math competitions or trivia bowls get reported in the paper, shown on TV or have fancy facilities built?) And all of us support these biases with endless talk of things like "he's only book-smart" - as if there's any other kind; being able to fix a car, cook a meal or pick up girls are certainly useful skills, but are not measures of intellect. Even at the pinnacle of their success we talk about them as "eggheads in ivory towers" and proudly claim to be more "streetwise" and to live in "the real world", simply because we understand deep down that we lack the intellect to understand the world, and its strrets, as much as academic experts do. This is the really big issue. Korean and Taiwanese and Indian students are not kicking US academic ass up and down because they are inherently more intelligent, but because they are not worn down and demoralized and held back by being told all their life that it is weak, weird, socially unacceptable and even offensive to BE more intelligent than the norm.

If we celebrated academic success rather than loathed it, we'd get more of it. How much teachers get paid and how much time they get off is pretty meaningless compared to that.


Excellent points, and I think that I agree with what you have to say. Pretend that President Obama has just appointed you head of the Department of Education. What would you do to correct all of this bullshit that has brought the education system in the United States so low from where it used to be?

p.s. Have you seen "Waiting for Superman" yet?


Well that's tricky because the solutions are mostly either social mores, which are impossible to change at will and evolve over decades, or unconstitutional, but assuming we posit an unusually powerful and persuasive secretary who can overcome such things I would:

    Extend school years and days (set up for when kids all worked on family farms and businesses) to a minimum of 210 days of 6.5 actual classroom hours.

    Standardize curricula properly. A set basic curriculum for the nation, not state or district, on a fixed/elective model. So all schools share math, English, core science, Spanish, history and civics/social sciences curricula and can choose from electives such as other languages, specific sciences, higher math, technical/vocational, music, art, etc as they wish - with the electives themselves also standardized. Tests also standardized in both content and time nationally.

    Introduce a new standard curriculum called "basic reasoning". It should include the elementary principles of logic, critical thinking, argument, fallacies, etc. as well as real world applications such as verifying political claims, advertising, media spin, etc. Nobody should graduate without a couple of years minimum, with higher electives for financial analysis, beginning philosophy and so on.

    Stream students into different schools if possible but classes if not due to population size, starting around age 10-11, based on high/average/low academic ability. Allow mobility between streams based on test scores, and allow each stream flexibility in both speed of completion and number of electives taken, increasing with ability. So maybe the higher stream does algebra in 6th grade, while the lower does it in 9th, and so on - so in the end the higher stream will get more courses completed, but the lower stream will have to finish at least the core to graduate.

    Allow basic discipline in schools including age-appropriate corporal punishment, after-school detention and imposition of meaningful extra work both physical and mental as punishments.

    Cease all social promotion. In fact with the new curriculum-based progression the very idea of "moving up a grade" will be moot as schools/streams will vary in what is done when.

    Math, until you get way beyond secondary education, IS about numbers and rules and logical, linear problem solving; teach it that way. Oranges, passing trains, farmers ploughing fields etc are distractions not needed beyond possibly pre-K level explanation of numbers themselves. And for all that is holy stop the holistic shit and new math. Teach them arithmetic until they get it, then fractions, ratios, etc. until they get that, then algebra until they get that, then geometry, then trig, then stats, then calculus, then higher math (obviously the middle stream might stop at trig, lower at algebra or so).

    Allow "team" projects only in higher level courses. Yes people need to be able to work in teams, but they need to be shown to be capable themselves first.

    Leave elective choices available for non-academic subjects, especially for lower streams. It is far more useful and far less frustrating for both teacher and student to spend 3 months showing a kid with an IQ of 82 how to fix a small engine or frame a window than trying to get him to do quadratic equations. Such courses should be available in higher streams too, but will naturally become more a feature for those students who will never be asked in later life to calculate the intercept of a line, but may often have to fix a leaky toilet.

    Keep athletics and extra-curricular activities such as band and theater available, but make them completely subordinate to education. The idea that little Johnny is excused a real class to travel to a football game should be what it really is - laughable.

    Pay teachers appropriately, but hold them accountable for results like other professionals are. A 10 year engineer is judged on their design skills, cost reductions, ouput rate, etc. - and if a 5 yr engineer does better, then so be it. Tenure length is a terrible measure of ability for any job, and teaching is not an exception. Results of course are not the same as test scores, or no teacher would work with the lowest stream. Improvement in test scores and progress through the curricula however relative to teachers with comparable classes, are good metrics. A teacher who gets a gifted class through 4 units in a semester with an average grade of 82% may not rate as highly as one who gets a normal stream through 3 with 68% averages. Depends what others with the same material managed, and where the kids started. Other metrics matter too, like attendance changes, 360 evaluations including students, number of units which the teacher can demonstrate mastery of themselves, and so forth.


Not much anyone can do politically about the stigma of academic ability in US culture, but results will slowly change perceptions, and establishing the primacy of academics above extra-curricular pursuits would be a good start.

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