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 Post subject: If I should ever be so foolish...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:55 pm 
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SPOTES, if I should ever be so foolish as to get into a debate with you, please send me a private message telling me that I would be better off backing down, before I made a fool of myself. It might be a nice gesture, if you also offered to buy me a few brewskis, for following your advice. :lol:

Your reply to ZOG was far better than anything I was able to come up with. The point you made is one that would be very difficult to argue with. You da man...!

p.s. ZOG is a good guy. I really like him, despite his thinking that SeaWorld's orcas are prisoners being held in captivity, against their will.

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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:14 am 
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Wild orcas outlive orcas that are kept in captivity, at least according to the Wikipedia article on killer whales. The average female orca that survives infancy lives to be around 46, and the average male orca lives to be around 31. The average orca that is in captivity lives into their 20s. And I find it difficult to imagine an animal that can travel 100 miles/160 km in a day not feeling imprisoned in a place like Sea World, even with SW's best intentions.

-- RWM

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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:58 am 
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I have to agree with zog here. I've read that the captivity really messes them up mentally.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201109/captivity-drives-killer-whales-crazy-seaworld-fights-fines-placing

"Former SeaWorld trainer Jeff Ventre, who knows killer whales well, notes that fatal attacks "are manifestations of stress, even madness, in animals forced into miserable, unnatural conditions (link is external)." Not only do these amazing sentient beings suffer major psychological trauma but they also typically have broken teeth because they bite on the steel gates that are used to separate them and suffer from dorsal fin collapse (link is external) from endlessly swimming in circles. "

https://www.thedodo.com/seaworld-admits-to-giving-orca-492562391.html


And perhaps a timely article:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/candacewhiting/2015/10/12/killer-whale-dies-following-the-muddy-disaster-at-marineland/


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 Post subject: Why aren't you guys concerned about circus elephants...?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:15 am 
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Why aren't you guys concerned about circus elephants...?

Well, if you hadn't thought about them yet, I have good news for you.

The Ringling Brothers circus is ending it's elephant show.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... formances/

"Another reason for the decision, company President Kenneth Feld said, was that certain cities and counties have passed "anti-circus" and "anti-elephant" ordinances. The company's three shows visit 115 cities throughout the year, and Feld said it's expensive to fight legislation in each jurisdiction. It's also difficult to plan tours amid constantly changing regulations, he said."

Your city zoo will be next on the list of what animal rights nuts will be going after. There is no way that any zoo will be able to fend off the attack that animal rights zanies are going to go after them for. Of course this will make the world a better place, but will the animal rights activists stop there...? Your tropical fish tank is probably a bit down the road, but everyone knows that they are happier and live longer in the wild, than they do before floating belly on in the fish tank, and you flush their dead bodies down the toilet.

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 Post subject: Re: Why aren't you guys concerned about circus elephants...?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:15 pm 
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Cloudy wrote:
Why aren't you guys concerned about circus elephants...?

Well, if you hadn't thought about them yet, I have good news for you.

The Ringling Brothers circus is ending it's elephant show.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... formances/

"Another reason for the decision, company President Kenneth Feld said, was that certain cities and counties have passed "anti-circus" and "anti-elephant" ordinances. The company's three shows visit 115 cities throughout the year, and Feld said it's expensive to fight legislation in each jurisdiction. It's also difficult to plan tours amid constantly changing regulations, he said."

Your city zoo will be next on the list of what animal rights nuts will be going after. There is no way that any zoo will be able to fend off the attack that animal rights zanies are going to go after them for. Of course this will make the world a better place, but will the animal rights activists stop there...? Your tropical fish tank is probably a bit down the road, but everyone knows that they are happier and live longer in the wild, than they do before floating belly on in the fish tank, and you flush their dead bodies down the toilet.


And Playboy is ending nudity. Let's discuss which is more important.


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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:10 pm 
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I come at it from a place of environmental stewardship. Anything we don't really need to be doing to animals... I can do without, personally. And that's especially true if the animal possesses sapience. You don't need to be some animal rights nut to say well hey some of these animals are as intelligent (or more intelligent) than the people corralling them and keeping them in tiny ass places; maybe we should take a look at this. If the practices are fine, then there's no issue. But if the conditions are poor and it's affecting the physical and mental health of the animals then you need to revamp the system or abandon it completely. That really shouldn't be an extreme position to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:15 pm 
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mrgray wrote:
I come at it from a place of environmental stewardship. Anything we don't really need to be doing to animals... I can do without, personally. And that's especially true if the animal possesses sapience. You don't need to be some animal rights nut to say well hey some of these animals are as intelligent (or more intelligent) than the people corralling them and keeping them in tiny ass places; maybe we should take a look at this. If the practices are fine, then there's no issue. But if the conditions are poor and it's affecting the physical and mental health of the animals then you need to revamp the system or abandon it completely. That really shouldn't be an extreme position to you.


Anyone who would even contemplate any animal having anything remotely close to average human intelligence is, by definition, a nut of some sort, "animal rights" or otherwise.
"Environmental stewardship"?
How's this:
wild tiger pop. worldwide - 3200 or so
US zoo tiger pop. - 5000 or so
Preserving the existence of animals is important to many people.
I'm a big fan of survival of the fittest and also not much of a rank sentimentalist so I would be inclined to release all zoo animals back to their natural habitat. But, given their habituation to zoo life and the fact that animals may live longer in the wild (as zog rightly pointed out) but an incredibly smaller number of wild animal populations actually reach those advanced ages (as zog conveniently neglected to mention), I think you should consider it fortunate for the pursuit of " environmental stewardship" that my view is in the minority.
As far as orcas in captivity, I think a lot of their mental stress can be summed up best by paraphrasing Dr. Alan Grant: "Orca doesn't want to be fed. He wants to hunt."


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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:08 pm 
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Even if you don't buy into certain species rivaling humans in intelligence, you'd have to acknowledge some are sentient enough to where their captivity still becomes a moral dilemma. Think of it this way: If someone is mentally retarded, the general goal is still to give them as fulfilling a life as possible. Are you willing to say no animal is more aware than someone with 60 IQ?

Whether or not captivity is good for a species has to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Where it's good for a species, hey, keep on trucking. But just pointing to a species of tiger doesn't end the discussion. Like for orca... given the recent legislation, SeaWorld having orca in captivity isn't helping the population. The only reason to keep them there is they probably wouldn't survive in the wild. And if all SeaWorld was doing is growing a population unfit for life in the wild... I don't care if they wither up and die as a company. If I want to whales to entertain me I'll go to the strip club on a Tuesday.


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 Post subject: I'm conerned that high IQ animals...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:54 pm 
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I'm concerned that high IQ animals that understand English grammar, and follow the "ScaRatings", may be confused by the large number of sentences on this thread that begin with conjunctions. :lol:

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 Post subject: No more horse-drawn carriages in NYC...?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:08 am 
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New York City mayor, Bill de Blasio, promised to end the horse-drawn carriages in central park. His idea to protect the horses from abuse has run into major objections from many New Yorkers. How would you vote on de Blasio's proposal, if you could?

p.s. I had to delete the previous post about this, because several of the links about it went to NPR, and once I brought them over here, they would not allow me to return to the "ScaRatings" after clicking on the link to read them.

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Last edited by Cloudy on Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:19 am 
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Quote:
There is a widespread belief—one with no historical or grammatical foundation—that it is an error to begin a sentence with a conjunction such as and, but or so. In fact, a substantial percentage (often as many as 10 percent) of the sentences in first-rate writing begin with conjunctions. It has been so for centuries, and even the most conservative grammarians have followed this practice.


- Chicago Manual of Style


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 Post subject: Not here...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:38 am 
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mrgray wrote:
Quote:
There is a widespread belief—one with no historical or grammatical foundation—that it is an error to begin a sentence with a conjunction such as and, but or so. In fact, a substantial percentage (often as many as 10 percent) of the sentences in first-rate writing begin with conjunctions. It has been so for centuries, and even the most conservative grammarians have followed this practice.


- Chicago Manual of Style


MRGRAY, This isn't the place to get into an English grammar discussion. "The English Language" thread would be a better place to talk about it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:28 pm 
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mrgray wrote:
Are you willing to say no animal is more aware than someone with 60 IQ?


I'm not sure which discussion you're trying to have.
Are you looking to discuss comparative intelligence?
Or are you wanting to talk about awareness?
Those are two distinct things.

What I am saying is that no animal is smarter than a person with an average IQ.
Including extreme deviations from the norm is akin to making the case that a bowling ball is just
as good a swimmer as a fish, providing that that fish had no fins. It's an unnecessary argument.
But, yes, I am willing to concede that an animal might be more intelligent than a person in a
vegetative state.
As to their "awareness", given that almost all animals react or respond to their environment in
some fashion, through conscious effort or not, technically I would say that all animals are aware
to some degree.

Now if, by "aware", you actually mean "self-aware", that is a bit tougher to quantify.
There have been mirror tests done that show some species "recognize" themselves and therefore
exhibit some level of self-awareness. The usual suspects performed well: chimps, dolphins and some
members of the corvidae family.
But one could also make the argument that an understanding of one's mortality is the key component to
self-awareness and in that regard animals seem to be lacking.
Despite all of the research done on this topic, the jury is still out.
I suspect it's like modern art. Folks see what they want to see.

BTW, I would worry less about the affairs of the animal kingdom and start worrying more about the
business model of your local strip clubs. According to your description, I'm starting to doubt their
fiscal viability. Although... the extra creases for bill tucking could increase their profit margin quite nicely...


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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:04 pm 
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Cloudy wrote:
mudee wrote:
Its the real deal

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/launch-st ... -extremism


Whats next, the Thought Police?


Did Congress have anything to do with this? Why haven't I read anything about it in the newspaper?

I took the liberty to copy some of what the link you gave us said and paste it here:

"The Strong Cities Network will serve as a vital tool to strengthen capacity-building and improve collaboration,” said Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch. “As we continue to counter a range of domestic and global terror threats, this innovative platform will enable cities to learn from one another, to develop best practices and to build social cohesion and community resilience here at home and around the world.”

The Strong Cities Network (SCN) – which launches September 29th at the United Nations – will empower municipal bodies to fill this gap while working with civil society and safeguarding the rights of local citizens and communities.

The SCN will strengthen strategic planning and practices to address violent extremism in all its forms by fostering collaboration among cities, municipalities and other sub-national authorities."


What kind of political gobbledygook is this...? It reads like a "C-" paper turned in for a Poli-Sci 101 class. Lots of nice sounding words, but they tiptoe past what the "Strong Cities Network" is actually going to do, and why.

Where's the meat...?

What powers will they have? Has Congress approved their presence on U.S. soil? Why aren't our existing law enforcement and information gathering people such as the police, the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, etc, already able of doing the same things? What are the gaps, in what we already have in place, do we need "The U.N. Strong Cities Network" to fill? Who's going to pay for them? There are more questions, but that's enough...

p.s. Gotta ask one more question. What the Hell does this quote mean, "violent extremism in all its forms"...? This is such an ill-defined concept, that it could include anything from a nuclear bomb being trucked into New York City, or perhaps to a shootout between rival drug gangs.

p.p.s. Here is another snippet of the political gobbledygook that I really loved:

"...build social cohesion and community resilience...". Good Lord, give me a break. Maybe it should have been given a "D" instead of a "C-". :lol:

Okay, I went and read the linked DOJ page. I don't want to step over the "no politics on Scaratings" line, so I won't opine on the good or bad of this, but according to the linked DOJ page, there is no "Global Police Force" looming on the horizon. It's a program to promote sharing and best practices among municipalities worldwide. It sounds like our DOJ believes that city police agencies around the world are often the front line in the war against terrorism, so to them it makes sense to commit some our federal resources toward encouraging them to share intelligence, information and ideas toward that end. I see nothing about subjugating American authority, committing American forces anywhere else or allowing foreign forces to operate in America. Am I missing something?


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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:56 pm 
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Akbar71 wrote:
Cloudy wrote:
mudee wrote:
Its the real deal

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/launch-st ... -extremism


Whats next, the Thought Police?


Okay, I went and read the linked DOJ page. I don't want to step over the "no politics on Scaratings" line, so I won't opine on the good or bad of this, but according to the linked DOJ page, there is no "Global Police Force" looming on the horizon. It's a program to promote sharing and best practices among municipalities worldwide. It sounds like our DOJ believes that city police agencies around the world are often the front line in the war against terrorism, so to them it makes sense to commit some our federal resources toward encouraging them to share intelligence, information and ideas toward that end. I see nothing about subjugating American authority, committing American forces anywhere else or allowing foreign forces to operate in America. Am I missing something?


Yeah, you are...

I can't see why the United States, with all of it's resources, would need the feckless U.N. to send their people here to help us do what I'm sure that the FBI, CIA, NSA, and our police forces are already doing. I find it hard to believe that we are not already sharing information and ideas with other counties about possible terrorist threats. Yes, I now understand that the U.N. contingent, that we have invited to our country, won't be an actual police force armed with guns, tasers, and billy clubs, and they won't be arresting drunk drivers or rioters. However, what do we need them for? The U.N.'s record is dismal or worse, and I don't think we need their advisors to help us coordinate anti-terrorist information and strategies with other countries. I'm sure that we already doing it, and the U.N. assistance will be superfluous at best.

I feel that this whole deal we've made with the U.N. has a political motive behind it, because it sounds good. However, it will never accomplish much more than cost us money. I'll betcha dollars to donuts that we are going to be paying for the whole boondoggle.

(That's it. I'm done with this subject. You can call me a fool, if you want, but I'm moving on...)

p.s. I still love ya' baby...! :D

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8hbUqhKM38

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 Post subject: Having to watch seemingly endless photos...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:30 am 
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In the old days you weren't subjected to having to watch seemingly endless photos of someone's grandchildren, cute pets, recent vacation trip, or anything else that bored you to death very often. The only way you could be forced to have to suffer through this torture was if you were visiting someone, who put up the tripod screen and pulled out their slide projector. However, that was an infrequent torture that you didn't have to worry about everywhere you went.

Today things have changed. Nearly everyone now has newfangled, relatively small devices, where they can carry hundreds of boring photos with them everywhere they go. You are never safe from them anywhere you are, when they pull them out, and say, "I must show you pictures of my grandson Billy's first birthday party.", "You have to see how cute my new chihuahua is.", or "I don't think you've seen pictures of the wonderful trip Bob and I took to visit Cleveland, where he grew up."

This is an inescapable torture that you have no choice, but to endure. I usually encounter this at restaurants, where I have no option other than to fake interest, and pray to God that it won't go on forever.

These people kill interesting conversation, and have no idea that others at the table could give a shit about seeing pictures of her grandson, her stupid dog, or her trip to Cleveland. (Yeah, I used the pronoun "her", because no man has ever done this to me.)

Does anyone else feel the same way...?

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Last edited by Cloudy on Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:55 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:36 am 
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In the old days you couldn't post endless ramblings on the interwebs.

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 Post subject: Clever dig, but...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:03 am 
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THE ICEMAN wrote:
In the old days you couldn't post endless ramblings on the interwebs.


ICEMAN, clever dig, but it's off topic, and didn't answer the question, "Does anyone else feel the same way...?"

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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:13 am 
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I agree Cloudy. I also hate long drawn out text messaging, but have to do it. A text message thread that takes 15 minutes from start to end could have been taken care of in 3 minutes over the phone. But I don't mind the occasional one sentence with a quick reply.

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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:50 pm 
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At least you don't have to deal with this shit:

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/08/tinder-hook-up-culture-end-of-dating


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 Post subject: I've got to add this to my previous post...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:09 pm 
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(I've got to add this to my previous post about being bored to death by endless cell phone photos that someone forces me to watch.)

I have never asked anyone if they have bunch of cell phone pictures that they want to show me, nor have I ever heard anyone else ask to see them either. Even though nobody asked for it, the cell phone get's drawn from the purse as fast as a Colt .45 from a holster. The cell phone screen is aimed at you, and they start firing pictures at you that you never requested. As I sit there, nodding and saying "Very nice.", "He's so cute.", "Your new wallpaper is beautiful.", etc., I begin to think it would have been kinder, If they had actually pulled a Colt .45 out of the purse, and blown my brains out to save me the misery of having to see all of those boring pictures that I never asked for in the first place.

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 Post subject: A departure from what normally shows up here...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:45 am 
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(WARNING...! ONCE THE PHOTO QUIZ IS OVER, THERE IS A RELIGIOUS PRESENTATION THAT YOU CAN SKIP.)

While making a post on the "Last five song redux", I stumbled across something that is what I would call a pictorial quiz. It was something that showed up as I was checking my Bob Hope "Thanks for the Memory" song. It caught my imagination, so I watched the whole thing. It scrolls through pictures of famous and important people throughout history, who are no longer alive, but doesn't tell you who they are. (Two of the answers are inanimate objects, but they count.) It's nostalgic in a way. Go ahead and try it, and keep track of the ones you can or cannot name. I could name 43, but didn't know who 20 of them were. If you do give this a shot, be brave and honestly post how well you did here. (Please don't cheat.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS3DMEmIRUE

(Don't forget to count the first one, and don't skip the last three.)

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Last edited by Cloudy on Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: SPOTES sent me a private message...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:01 pm 
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SPOTES sent me a private message that correctly named all but two of the people and things in the pictures. Can anyone do better than that? Can anyone name them all? :?:

Even if you can't top SPOTES, giving it a try is a learning experience that will make you a better trivia player. Don't be a sissy, go ahead and take a shot at it. Hell, it will be easy to beat my score. :lol:

I have the complete list of SPOTES's answers that I will post here after enough time has elapsed that tells that none of you guys have the balls to give this pictorial quiz a try.

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Last edited by Cloudy on Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:28 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Chip the Bartender
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:57 am 
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Given my state of late night enebrication [sic], I will refrain from naming all. I do, however, recognize all butt aboot two or three & could name all butt four or five. Meanwhile, WTF with Pontiac & Eastern Airlines? Thems ain't folks.

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 Post subject: I love you man...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:23 am 
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THE ICEMAN wrote:
Given my state of late night enebrication [sic], I will refrain from naming all. I do, however, recognize all butt aboot two or three & could name all butt four or five. Meanwhile, WTF with Pontiac & Eastern Airlines? Thems ain't folks.


I love you man. I fully enjoyed the posts you put up here tonight. Though tonight is already gone, tomorrow is another day. Better yet tomorrow is the weekend, and you can get up any time you want. Weekends are just brief training sessions preparing you for retirement.

I would elaborate on your posts that I really liked, however, I won't because:



........................................................................................................ Image

....................................................................................................... Goodnight, I'm going to bed.

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