New Scaratings

Right Lewser! Teaching TO the test is not teaching the test. In teaching TO the test, we are given "state approved" examples of former questions and are told to make sure that students can answer said questions as they will be like questions on the upcoming standardized tests. The teachable moment is gone!

_________________
Malort. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

I'm not even truly opposed to teaching TO the test, if the concepts are still remembered. One of the things I am most proud of some of my teachers for is in instilling the concepts of what I was learning. Some ignorance time, here: Do I remember the bloody atomic number of any element? Or the dates of most battles? Or any other trivia? Nope.

Can I have a serious, intelligent discussion with well educated people who work in those areas for a living? Yes. Can my classmates who were taught TO the test? No. They know and remember nothing, now.

I was fortunate in that there isn't a standardized test on Earth I won't blow away so I didn't have to spend my time "learning to pass them", but it was very frustrating to demolish the scores of good friends who were in the same areas I was in in both high school and college, and, in the end, have them not only with lower scores, but also NO understanding.

But I at least give them credit for being smarter than me and taking far easier classes to keep their GPAs up, instead of, say, the best professors in the school who never gave above a B. Literally: had a prof for 6 classes whose highest grade in something like 20 years was a B+ -- and after reading his comments on anything you wrote, you completely agreed with him. His MO was to give you a few hundred to thousands of pages of reading, cover it conceptually in class, then hit you with an essay from any possible topic from any of the reading, where you had to put together a rather long essay (in class, not on "e-submission"), with good concepts, concrete examples, and personal conjecture, with no references. Everyone who didn't drop those courses is set for life in those areas, conceptually.

If you aren't at least getting high scores out of the teaching to the test, at least go back to actually teaching well, IMO. And yes, I sympathize immensely with teachers. I have many good and dear friends who are teachers from elementary school up to Harvard. This shiat is everywhere, but especially present in public high schools.

I do not know how you all do it. I used to spend almost the entirety of my free time not taken by other hobbies tutoring people from everything from elementary school geography, to organic chemistry, to essay writing, to acing the ACT/SAT/GRE/GMAT. Sometime about 8 or 9 years ago I decided that the entire education system must be broken, top to bottom, and the standardization and funding of the education system on ridiculous metrics seemed to be the culprit. I did not have the patience or energy for it anymore. I tried again with a relative recently, and I seriously came home and cried, then got drunk off my ass. It was that upsetting how bad of shape he was in, and he wasn't one of the "bottom students." They never would have passed in him my classes (and my classes had learning disabled kids in them, btw, they weren't "honors," since we were too small to have real "honors" or "AP").

If you want an army of drones, get some robots. If you want children to be inspired (which is the only true way to get anyone to learn), you have to let people be who they are, not who an idiot government bureaucrat thinks they should be.

Dante, I'll tell you what. I blame Bush's "No Child Left Behind" for this mess. This law calls for 100% of students to meet or exceed state standards. You want to talk about an impossible goal? And to be fair and balanced, Obama hasn't exactly done away with this mess of a law.

_________________
Malort. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

I don't know enough about No Child Left Behind to comment, but if that's true, I certainly hope it's derided as one of the worst decisions ever 100 years from now.

See this article, Rhino: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Education/ ... in-Atlanta

Yes because standardized tests are MISused as absolute rather than relative metrics. The only sane way to use universal examinations is not to say "all kids must score X" (which means either the test is so simple as to be useless or the standard is doomed to failure) but to say "your score of Y on this test is a bit better than Y-1 and a bit worse than Y+1" (which means the test works equally well for those who score 20 as those who score 90, but with different reference points). Pretending that misuse of a testing standard negates the value of all testing standards is the same as pretending that a speed limit of 30 mph on a divided highway with no intersections (hello Binghamton NY) negates the value of all speed limits

_________________
Please forgive any strange typos or grammar errors. I am typically using voice recognition software to enter text, and sometimes editing works differently from how I expect.

Don't disagree with any of that. Just thought you'd find it interesting if you hadn't already seen it, per your prior questions on how people would cheat anyway.

Though I do agree that a speed limit of 30 mph anywhere negates the value of all speed limits.

God help us if someone decided to give our kids a standard European or Canadian 4th grade test.

_________________
"Truth Like Football. Gets kicked around much, before reaching goal." - Charlie Chan

" Don't look back, The bastards might be gaining on you." - Satchel Paige

Frank

Can't speak to CA but UK at least used to do something similar to what I suggest at age 10/11 to "stream" kids into different schools. That's unfashionably "elitist" these days (whereas for some reason different levels in kids' sports at an even younger age and thence for life is just "fair"). The tests were not mandatory IIRC - you took them if you wanted to and thought you might get into better schools. At 16 again something like but not quite what I'd propose was applied. The final exams were given in each subject and you either passed A-C or failed D-F each subject individually, graded on a curve (no set pass mark - I got a B with 45% on one absolute stinker!). Typically employers asked for a minimum number of 'O' (ordinary) levels, most likely 5 or 6 for a reasonable clerical job. Plenty of kids got zero. 7 or 8 was a good performer, and the high achievers got into the teens - but most of them did not go into jobs but went on to 'A' (advanced) levels two years later and then into universities based on those grades.

To me that's not quite right. For a start for the majority who simply left school it makes an O level in Cookery equal to one in Ancient Greek. Don't get me wrong the former is more useful as a skill, but if the point is to measure academic ability, not as illustrative a metric. I'd keep the curve grading but eliminate the pass/fail so it would be useful for all levels too, and I would do these tests at least every two years to monitor progress and "restream" kids into the appropriate academic environment. Koresh knows a brilliant 10 yr old can become a dumbass 14 yr old and vice versa.

_________________
Please forgive any strange typos or grammar errors. I am typically using voice recognition software to enter text, and sometimes editing works differently from how I expect.

I'm not sure if you guys have talked about this yet. I just found out about the test cheating scandal. I'm not in the education trenches, as many of you are, but I would like to hear your thoughts.

Here are some links to the stories and videos of school systems cheating to improve their students' scores on tests:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/201 ... ting_n.htm

http://www.the33tv.com/about/station/ne ... 5873.story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GvlPF8kIn4

Here's a link to some more on the test cheating scandal:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/1 ... 95179.html

Educators Accused Of Tampering With Students' Tests From D.C. To Pennsylvania

As Atlanta deals with the fallout of a report that exposed widespread, systemic cheating by educators on standardized tests, more and more such episodes -- and their aftermaths -- have unfolded from Washington, D.C., to Pennsylvania.

The rigor and scale of Georgia's independent investigation -- believed to be the deepest look into teacher cheating in U.S. history -- will either spur states into action when it comes to questioning rising student test scores or scare officials away from drawing attention to potential flaws at their schools.

"On the one hand, we've got new administrations at the state level which are quite willing to reveal problems with the previous administration," said Jeffrey Henig, a professor at Columbia University's Teachers College. "By the same token, in a lot of states there's going to be a preference to not find out if there's large-scale cheating, to avoid undertaking this kind of investigation, as the result will be questioning their own claims of academic success."

A report released last Tuesday by Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal alleged that systematic cheating occurred within Atlanta Public Schools, including at least 44 of the 56 examined schools. It implicated teachers who had been found to erase students' incorrect answers and replace them with correct ones. The report followed an earlier investigation, conducted by the University of Pennsylvania's education school Dean Andy Porter, that the school district had buried.

"The rooster is guarding the hen house," said Gregory Cizek, a University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill professor involved in analysis of Atlanta's schools. "When you're asking the state Department of Education to follow up on the state education system's potential problems, you're asking the wrong people to follow up on that. It should be some external or independent arm that does the follow up or the analyses."

The Atlanta school board met Monday to begin deciding the fate of the 138 implicated teachers.

On Friday, The Philadelphia Public School Notebook, a blog on Philadelphia's education system, reported that the state had provided it with a 2009 forensics investigation that flagged 60 statewide schools with suspicious results on standardized state exams.

_________________
"The game is afoot."

You linked to HuffPo! This may have caused a tear in the fabric of spacetime.

OH NO...! What have I done...?

What is the Huffington Post, and why might it cause a tear in the fabric of spacetime...?

Well, I don't want to be reponsible for ending the Universe and all reality, so I'll try to avoid links to "HuffPo" in the future, that is, if it isn't too late, and there still is a future waiting for us out there.

_________________
"The game is afoot."

Huffington is known as one of the more liberal, partisan people around. I don't actually believe that, as I think she, like Murdoch, is just a huge opportunist, but before she successfully managed to permanently destroy any future AOL had left, she was rather well despised amongst the right side of the net for being a hypocritical, liberal apologist.

I really just think she's a just a very vicious, incredibly smart businesswoman, but some people would say even in her aggregation business she's just a notch down from DailyKos on the crazy scale.

Huffington is known as one of the more liberal, partisan people around. I don't actually believe that, as I think she, like Murdoch, is just a huge opportunist, but before she successfully managed to permanently destroy any future AOL had left, she was rather well despised amongst the right side of the net for being a hypocritical, liberal apologist.

I really just think she's a just a very vicious, incredibly smart businesswoman, but some people would say even in her aggregation business she's just a notch down from DailyKos on the crazy scale.[/quote]
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks for bringing me up to speed.

So do you think we need to worry about her starting to post left wing stuff on the "ScaRatings"...?

.........................

.......... Thanks CLOUDY, I'm adding the "ScaRatings" to my favorite sites, and please give my love to DANTE.

_________________
"The game is afoot."

I replied to a post by Dante earlier. Leastways, I THOUGHT I did. Teh interwebz can be a tricky place. Fortunately, one thing the tricksy interwebz has taught me is it's a good idea to alt c before sending. So, I'll repost, except without the quotation boxes. Hope you will bear with me.

Dante sed:

"Huffington is known as one of the more liberal, partisan people around. I don't actually believe that, as I think she, like Murdoch, is just a huge opportunist, but before she successfully managed to permanently destroy any future AOL had left, she was rather well despised amongst the right side of the net for being a hypocritical, liberal apologist."

Then *I* sed:

When you catch her hacking a teenage murder victim's cellphone, or those of 9/11 victims, you let me know. Was Huffpost ever caught running pics of misbehaving Democrats with the letter 'R' placed underneath their names? Dozens of times?

Wanna duck in my Sean Hannity anecdote, speaking of how the right hates leftists because they're so partisan. I watched Bush's after-9/11 speech to Congress (2nd Thursday after), at Shannon's. So I was a captive viewer of whatever network they chose, which was Fox. Now, I've listened in on Hannity over the years, and his FAVORITE charge during the Bush years was that the left had 'politicized the Iraq War from Day One.'

So, this anecdote about the speech precedes all those times he said this. Which is relevant. Because I watched Sean Hannity come on after the speech, the speech delivered to a country that couldn't have been more united behind George Bush, and not 30 seconds went by, and he said, 'Let's see the liberals crawl out from behind this one.'

Stunning, huh?

Nope. Huffington and her organization are infinitely more moral and ethical than Murdoch's crew. I was comparing them only as opportunist businesspeople, which they both are. They are also both brilliant at it. I find Murdoch to be vile, and I hope he and half of his staff go to jail.



I guess. I don't pay any attention to Sean Hannity any longer. He's a sham. He had an exchange with Stewart (or possibly Colbert) a while back wherein he basically admitted it's all for the money. I'll give anyone a listen, however much I disagree with them, if they are intellectually honest, but he's just a waste of time, for both himself and for his listeners and viewers.

I'm not chastising Huffpo. I read the news from far more "biased" places on a regular basis. Hell, I even occasionally read articles from known crazy crackpot websites (I find people who believe conspiracy theories to be fascinating). Merely pointing out to Cloudy that he sourced from a site that, in general, would disagree with most of the sentiments he posts in various threads here, which I found amusing. Then again, I say amusing in the most lighthearted way possible. I don't consider Cloudy to actually be a far right wing person, having the fortune to have discussed a great, great many things with him in person. He's usually very evenhanded, and will admit when he's wrong, which I can't say of everyone I discuss things with on occasion.

I guess if your response was a disagreement about how right wing sites view the Huffington Post, I don't have much to say in response. It's pretty easy to research, and I prefer not to dig around on WorldNetDaily and such to present evidence, as it just isn't that important, and most of those sites turn my stomach and make me angry.

"I don't consider Cloudy to actually be a far right wing person, having the fortune to have discussed a great, great many things with him in person. He's usually very evenhanded, and will admit when he's wrong, which I can't say of everyone I discuss things with on occasion."
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thank you, DANTE. Most people, who don't really know me would call me a right wing conservative, but those would be people, who really don't know me. I take the conservative position on a lot of issues, but I also have some left wing liberal ideas on a lot of issues also.

Let's see how much trouble this gets me into. Though I listen to him, I think Rush Linbaugh is a total idiot. His analysis of things is complete bullshit. He never graduated from college. He is merely an opportunist entertainer, with a couple million people, who listen to him every day, and have made him a multi-millionaire.

.................................................................................
..................................................................................... This man would have trouble adding one and one.

_________________
"The game is afoot."

I'm surpised, and somewhat dissapointed that nobody seems to have any thoughts about the test cheating scandal that seems to have been going on in lot of places.

It sure would have helped me, if some kindhearted teacher had changed my wrong answers to right ones on the New York State Regents Physics Exam back in 1963.

_________________
"The game is afoot."

Everyone needs to watch the movie, "Conrack", if you can find it, especially if you are a teacher.



The movie is based on a true story of Pat Conroy. It brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. Here is a synopsis of the movie from Wickipedia:

"The story follows a young teacher (Jon Voight) in 1969 assigned to an isolated Yamacraw Island off the coast of South Carolina populated mostly by poor black families. He finds out that the children as well as the adults have been isolated from the rest of the world and speak a dialect called Gullah and "Conrack" is their way of saying his name "Conroy." The school is a two room school with the Principal (Madge Sinclair) teaching grades one through four and Conrack teaching the higher grades. He discovers that they know very little. He tries to teach them about the outside world and comes in conflict both with the principal and Mr. Skeffington (Hume Cronyn), the superintendent. This comes to a head when he takes them to Beaufort on the mainland to go trick or treating, which the superintendent has forbidden. He also must overcome parental fears of "the river." As a result, he's fired. As he leaves the island for the last time, the children come out to see him leave, bringing along a record player on which they play the beginning movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony as he leaves."

The world needs more teachers like Pat Conroy. He really cared about the kids he taught, and did a great deal of good for the short time he could.

The movie is very hard to find, but if you can and watch it, I promise you it will bring tears to your eyes also.

Here is a link to a video that shows a short bit of the early part of the film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgqO9Y-Pg_o

_________________
"The game is afoot."

Has anyone out there ever seen the movie "Conrack"...?

I'm guessing not, because, if anyone ever did, somebody would have said something. Get off your butts, find this movie and watch it, especially if you are a teacher. I think it says a lot about education in the United States. Don't worry, it is NOT a right wing attack. Perhaps it is quite the opposite. Find it and watch it God damn it...!

Here's a link to some footage that takes you to the end of the movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIYq49de ... re=related

Come on, watch it, make me happy, and let me know what you think...

I'm thinking even though I am quite old, perhaps I should consider teaching. Perhaps, I should have done this from the beginning, when I was young.

_________________
"The game is afoot."

"The Lottery" (2010) is another documentary movie on this subject. I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to.

Here's a link to a review of the movie:

http://takingnote.learningmatters.tv/?p=4560

Here's a link to a trailer from the movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUWW1shF1f8

_________________
"The game is afoot."

I have been trying to find and delete a new post, that I thought I put on this thread tonight. I think it was rude to teachers, whom I admire. However, I can't find it to delete. If anyone finds it on some other thread please send me a private message telling me where I put it, so I can delete it, before my teacher friends run across it. (Perhaps, God stepped in, and deleted it for me, 'cause I can't find it anywhere.)

_________________
"The game is afoot."

Are you sure you didn't accidentally erase it one, or two, or three times and never post it?

DANTE, that is certainly a possibility... I sure hope that post is gone, because it was rude to people I like, and admire. After a few brewskis, I thought my post was witty and provocative. However, after I read it again, I knew it was obnoxious, and not something that I wanted to insult my teacher friends with. Actually, I cannot remember what I wrote. I only remember that it was pretty much bullshit, that I would have been ashamed of the next morning.
Thank God that it seems to be gone.

_________________
"The game is afoot."