New Scaratings

Per team instructions:

Buzztime is trying some new things lately. Why don’t we? Like what? How about a new kind of tournament?

Why?

One unfortunate reality of Buzztime games from the beginning is that very few teams (often just one) dominate each game. Look at https://ntn.donrdenton.com/ , and you’ll see the truth of that, both now and in the past. That website also is the best source of information for determining who is the best, and who is better than whom, which makes tournaments with that as the goal pretty superfluous.

That is not the only reason for having a tournament: additional entertainment and intensified competition are others. Unfortunately, most Buzztime tournaments are not very entertaining because the winner is usually a given and the structure of the competition usually favors the overdog and precludes upsets. If you have the usual best 4 out of 5 tournament, top score wins, the favorite is almost always going to win, and most teams will be out of the competition by the end of the second week. You can call that fair and just (especially if you’re the favorite), but it’s not a lot of fun for everyone else.

So let’s level the playing field for the rest of the teams for once. We are going to have an experimental tournament this September, for Thursday Six from September 12 to September 26. Just three weeks: best two out of three. We will call it the X-1 tournament.

Besides being short, what’s so experimental about this? This tournament will have a handicap system, just like bowling leagues and golf tournaments.
How will this work? Teams that play most of the time on Wednesdays or Thursdays (this time from January 1-August 31) will normally qualify to play. Their scores during that period will be totaled up and adjusted (low scores will be increased to a minimum level; very low scores (probably caused by less than five players playing) will be dropped altogether). The adjusted scores will be averaged, and a 90% handicap (90% of 60,000 – adjusted average) will be calculated for each team, which will be added to the team’s score for each week of the competition (but not to exceed the maximum Six score).

What is likely to happen in such a tournament? I did some testing with actual scores, and what this does is make Cinderella teams a real possibility. Do better than usual, and you can win this.

Due to the relatively short notice and the moribund nature of communication between active Buzztime players (please pass the word to others), top Wednesday/Thursday teams will be automatically enrolled (more on that in the next post). Those teams can opt out on request, and other teams may request to be included (subject to verification of qualifications).

The winner will receive a modest plaque commemorating their victory, which they can keep. If this works well, we’ll have more substantial prizes in the future, and try this with other games (not every game is suited for this approach).

We also have some other new ideas for tournaments. For instance, people like knockout rounds, but every tournament that has one makes you play for a month or more just to get to the good stuff. Why? Why not rank the teams based on their past performance, and just have knockout rounds? If that’s good enough for the NCAAs, it’s good enough for us. Add handicapping to it, and you get what I call X-2. In the past, I’ve mentioned long-term tournaments of indefinite length that only ends when one team has a cumulative score that is X,000 points more than all the other competitors. That is likely to happen, too (though that will probably not be a handicap tournament).

Next, some rules.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

So how is this going to work?

First, the draft rules for calculating the handicap.

Handicap Tournament: A handicap tournament is one in which each team receives an addition to the points earned in a game based on their previous average compared to the basis score.

Requirements for participation: To participate in this experimental tournament, a team must have had qualifying scores for at least half the games in the qualifying period (in this case calendar year 2024) in either Wednesday or Thursday Six and must have a current ranking in that game at ntn.donrdenton.com. A team may be required to provide a list of likely players and those who are not considered members of the team. Edit: The tournament showrunner may admit teams that do not qualify under these rules provided he reports this decision and explains why he did so in a Buzztime public forum.

Qualifying score: A qualifying score is a team average score for a week which exceeds 30,000 points, as calculated in Buzztime’s HOF.

Handicap calculation: Subtract the adjusted average team score from the basis score and multiply the result by the percentage factor to calculate a team’s trivia tournament handicap.

Basis score: The basis score for the following games are:
Six: 60,000

Percentage factor: The percentage factor used in this tournament shall be Edit:was 90% now is 80%.

Adjusted average team scores: The adjusted average team score shall be the team’s average team for the period January 1-August 31 as reported at ntn.donrdenton.com, as adjusted. Scores may be adjusted or excluded.

Adjustment: The average team score shall be adjusted as follows:

Any team score between 30,000 and 40,000 points shall be counted as 40,000.

Exclusion of scores: Any week in which a team average score is less than 30,000 points will be excluded from both the adjusted average team score and as a qualifying week. A gamerunner may also decide to adjust or exclude specific individual or team scores if he determines that including them would unduly affect the adjusted team average score, either to the team’s benefit or detriment. A legitimate reason for excluding a score would include less than five players in a given week, or the presence of high-scoring non-team members in a given week. There must be documented proof in Buzztime records for doing this. All such specific decisions must be publicly posted and reason given in a public Buzztime forum.

Teams that play Wednesday and Thursday Six: If a team qualifies for play based on both Wednesday and Thursday Six scores, the higher adjusted team score shall be used in any handicap calculation.

Maximum score: The maximum score a team can be credited for in a week (including their handicap) cannot exceed 66,000 (the maximum Six score).

Teams that play in more than one location: Teams that play in more than one location will use all locations where and when they played in calculating their team averages. Buzztime records are to be used when needed to verify a location change. Location scores recorded before or after the team’s residence at the location shall not be counted.

Comments, please.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

If Stained Glass Pub is up and running by 12th we would play. Can’t play on the 19th but could play on the 26th. But it seems SGP hasn’t played any games to qualify. If SGP is still dead we may try Oliver’s in Laurel MD.

I do like head to head or knockout games. Good idea to get that in there. May have to look at that somehow for the Mudee next year. Minimum 8 teams I’d say.

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BUD - Stained Glass Pub Silver Spring MD
OC BUD - Grotto Pizza DE near Ocean City MD

LET'S GO ....Orioles and the 9 and 5!!

I polled the teams in Chicago.

The Wednesday team at Teasers is not interested in participating.

The Thursday team at Walsh’s believes that the handicapping be done similar to hose racing, but instead of weight carried, the handicap be based on drinking done. We are ready with our Malort.

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Merkin

Teasers will be opted out, thank you.

When Buzztime HOF and/or Don Denton's website begin reporting blood alcohol levels during specific games, I will consider that factoring challenge.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

IDJT, formerly of West Park Station but now of Backdraft Bar and Grill in North Olmstead, Ohio, for some reason finds himself unable to post in Scaratings. He deputized me to enter Backdraft in this tournament.

BUD, do you have any suggestions on how he might be able to post?

_________________
Anon
"He may seem like Mr. Rogers but a dark spirit lies beneath."

Under the rules set forth in this thread, Backdraft would ordinarily be ineligible to participate in this tournament because they
and any previous team location have not had the required number of qualifying scores in 2024.

However, given that this is an experimental tournament, this team has posted consistently high scores for the brief time they have been at the location, and this team
is the latest location of a team that has a long track record of qualifying play, I will enter the team and calculate their average according to the rules for all scores registered
on or after August 1, which is 54,240.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

This tournament is set to start on Thursday, September 12.

After additional simulations, I have decided to reduce the handicap percentage from 90% to 80%, and have changed the earlier posts accordingly.

Here are the teams that were automatically enrolled due to their high standing in Wednesday and/or Thursday Six and who have not opted out, along with their adjusted average and
handicap points they will get for each game:

Walsh's
Adj. Average: 59339
Handicap: 529

Revival/Valhalla
Adj. Average: 56527
Handicap: 2778

Stewart's
Adj. Average: 53803
Handicap: 4958

Bull's Eye
Adj. Average:53703
Handicap:5038

Slate St.
Adj. Average: 52469
Handicap: 6025

Arch II
Adj. Average: 52059
Handicap: 6353

Esquire Club
Adj. Average: 50259
Handicap: 7793

Time Out West
Adj. Average: 49868
Handicap: 8106

Tailgator's
Adj. Average: 49625
Handicap: 8300

71st Street Depot
Adj. Average: 49251
Handicap: 8599

Bogart's
Adj. Average: 48120
Handicap: 9504

Teams may opt out at any point, and will be dropped from the standings if they have no or minimal scores after two weeks.

Here is the team that was admitted to the competition:

Backdraft
Adj. Average: 54240
Handicap: 4608

If you wish to enroll your team, just contact me and I'll see if you qualify.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

stro, thanks for getting us in this tournament that i do not understand at all. but we will be at backdraft on thursday through september so we will do our best.

Think of this like a bowling league, with a handicap to help level the playing field. There are some extra rules to address the
differences between Buzztime and bowling: you don't have a varying number of players in bowling, for instance.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

The tournament starts tonight. Given the short notice and the splintered communications among Buzztime players,
I might allow teams to enter after tonight, but it would be better for all if you requested now rather than later.

That said, I will report results by early Friday afternoon EST. I may provide provisional scores before then, but it appears that
the results you see Thursday might a) not include BYOD locations and/or b) have a few team scores calculated on the basis of less
than five boxes, so they may not be accurate. The HOF results are the official results. All team scores reported will include the team's
handicap for the game, as detailed in my earlier post. I will attach the Excel spreadsheet used for the calculations if you wish more specific
detail.

Good luck!

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

Here are the results from last night's game (scores include handicap):

Zack's 62671
Bogart's 61801
Bull's Eye 59993
Arch II 57965
Slate St. 51994
Backdraft 51077
(9/19: Edited due to Walsh's withdrawal.)

Other enrolled teams either did not play or had a negligible score (one person got a 13K in one place). If any of these teams show up to play next week, their score will be included; otherwise they will be dropped.

It looks like we have one Cinderella after week 1: Bogart's. This is a team that shows up faithfully each week, but they just don't score as high as the Walsh's of the world. Under the usual tournament rules, this team would not stand a chance of winning or coming close. Here, they do, provided they keep playing better than usual. That's the point of this tournament, to give more teams a chance to compete if they do better than usual.

Let me repeat what I said at the beginning in plainer terms: it's important to know what this tournament is not. Neither it nor MUDEE nor any Buzztime-run tournament proves or disproves who is the best team in any particular game. The yearly statistics do that, and they are very clear on this point: Walsh's is the best Thursday Six team, and there is no legitimate reason to doubt that. The purpose of any Buzztime tournament is to enhance the entertainment of its participants, and the purpose of this tournament is to level the playing field so as to enhance the entertainment of more participants.

P.S. I attempted to attach the Excel spreadsheet with tournament results, but this website does not allow that kind of file as an attachment. My apologies. Ask if you wish more specific information.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

Week 2 is tonight.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

Stro,

Thank you for the very kind words above. Sorry I was not clear before. Walsh's is not interested in participating.

Thanks.

_________________
Merkin

Very well.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

Results from last night (scores include handicap):

Zack's 59466
Bull's Eye 57606
Backdraft 56813
Slate St. 56604
Arch II 55302
Bogart's 54256

Totals for two weeks:

Zack's 122137
Bull's Eye 117599
Bogart's 116057
Arch II 113267
Slate St. 108598
Backdraft 107890

Totals with dropped score:

Zack's 62671
Bogart's 61801
Bull's Eye 59993
Arch II 57965
Backdraft 56813
Slate St. 56604

Handicapping does help to level the playing field. Zack's has a lead, but it is less than unsurmountable.

See you next week.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

Tonight is the last night of this experimental tournament. Good luck to all!

BTW, does anyone from Zack's or Bogart's frequent this website? Even if you don't, if you know
who does, could you please tell me who does? Thanks!

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

Zack’s is Big Dave, he’s rarely on here. He was a BT ambassador for awhile.

I don’t think anyone from Bogarts is on here. Could be a lurker/reader?

_________________
BUD - Stained Glass Pub Silver Spring MD
OC BUD - Grotto Pizza DE near Ocean City MD

LET'S GO ....Orioles and the 9 and 5!!

Thanks.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

OK, briefly: Zack's won, with Bogart's coming in a very close second, and Bull's Eye a not-as-close third. I will try to contact the Zack's
representative, but contact or not, I will go to the trophy store Monday to order the plaque.

When I have more time this weekend, I will provide scores, explanations and post-game commentary.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

Results from last night (scores include handicap):

Backdraft 66000*
Bogart's 66000*
Zack's 65420
Bull's Eye 65018
Slate St. 57667
Arch II 57323

A little explanation is called for. When there is a relatively easy game, it is quite possible for teams to score high enough so that their score plus handicap exceed the maximum possible Six score
(66,000). This happened with both Backdraft and Bogart's. Allowing the entire handicap would make it impossible for a low-handicap team to win even with a perfect score. Therefore, there was
a rule which limits a team's maximum score to the Six maximum.

Total scores for three weeks (scores include handicap):

Zack's 187557
Bull's Eye 182617
Bogart's 182057
Backdraft 173890
Arch II 170590
Slate St. 166265

Best two out of three:

Zack's 128091
Bogart's 127801
Bull's Eye 125011
Backdraft 122813
Arch II 115288
Slate St. 114271

A very close finish: Cinderella almost pulled it off! Congratulations to Zack's for winning it and Bogart's for almost winning it.

More commentary this weekend.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

First, the purpose of the tournament was to level the playing field to give Cinderellas a chance against the usual overlords, and that it did: Bogart's almost won by playing better than usual. While Walsh's didn't play, they would have come in third had they played.

If I were to criticize the handicap system used in this tournament, I would say it handicaps the overlords a bit too much for a few rather subtle reasons: participants in bowling and golf tournaments do not perform at the theoretical maximum (bowlers don't average near 300, golfers don't have rounds near 18), while Buzztime participants do. It is fairly common for teams with a relatively low average score to have a very good but not spectacular score, and get a total exceeding the maximum Six score. I put in a rule limiting a maximum score to the Six maximum, but that doesn't really compensate for another reality: even for lesser teams, it is easier to get a very good score than it is for an overlord to get a spectacular one. For example: Bull's Eye would have gotten about 4,500 points more in handicap than Walsh's had they played. The Bull's Eye team has had six 60K+ games so far this year. To match that score, Walsh's would have to get a 64.5K score, which they've done: once. True, more often than not, it will be Walsh's getting the 60K and Bull's Eye getting the 52K, but if you have six or ten or more teams playing, a couple of them are likely to get hot for that time period.

If your eyes are glazing over about now, that's another issue: any handicap system will be more complicated than just adding up a set of scores, and the nature of Buzztime games and how teams play them add more issues and rules to the picture.

Last but not least, the lack of feedback, good or bad, is troublesome. If that were limited to this particular item, that would be one thing, but in comparison to what a badbart was like 25 years ago, this and other places are graveyards, about pretty much anything outside of "remember the good old days, don't change a thing."

Comments, please.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

It’s tough to get much talk about any of the tourneys it seems. Good number of views on the posts though. Nothing to add I guess.

One problem with the experimental tourney was the auto entry. Several bars I’m sure have no idea they were in it. Zack’s and Bogarts especially.

This would be a Tournament worth following up with maybe six months off from the Mudee so there are 2 Six tournaments in a year. Handicapped round and then maybe head to head for the final 4 or 8 teams?

_________________
BUD - Stained Glass Pub Silver Spring MD
OC BUD - Grotto Pizza DE near Ocean City MD

LET'S GO ....Orioles and the 9 and 5!!

Per the auto entry, not surprised some teams weren't aware of this. Reminded me of when Buzztime would
run competitions between locations and not directly tell the participants about it. Every once in a while, Mad River
would get a box of swag from Buzztime, and we wouldn't know why. The auto entry wasn't a problem: it was a symptom
of the real problem, which is an inability to communicate with the bulk of potential participants. In the near future, I will ask on
the Buzztime Facebook page if reference to player tournaments would be allowable.

Per timing, something like this could be held at any time in the year as long as playing data for the game is available. Head-on-head
competition in a playoff format with handicap may be problematic though, imagine the Yankees outscoring another team 7-6, but losing
the game because that other team had a 2 run handicap.

_________________
“When I see the right and the ability to do everything granted to any power whatsoever, whether it is called people or king, democracy or aristocracy . . ., I say: there is the seed of tyranny, and I seek to go live under other laws.” --de Tocqueville

Last year’s Mudee was featured on the Buzztime Facebook page and Buzztime even added in some prizes. Souvenir non functional tablets and coffee mugs for all team members.

I think we got 2 or maybe 3 teams from that page.

I didn’t even bother to bring it up this year.

As for the experimental tourney I was saying a handicapped opening round to set the seeding then head to head rounds without the the handicap.

But it doesn’t make much sense to get too involved without more player involvement which is waning for sure, mostly due to loss of locations including mine very soon.

_________________
BUD - Stained Glass Pub Silver Spring MD
OC BUD - Grotto Pizza DE near Ocean City MD

LET'S GO ....Orioles and the 9 and 5!!